Bell Box Fault?

[silicon skum]

I have an ADE Optima Compact alarm pannel, and an unknown make bell box (usual gubbins - sounder, tamper, strobe and battery backup) install is a little over 3 years old.

The bell box activated last night, even though the pannel was not active (daytime mode), nothing from the pannel (eg no sounder, or tamper light) and reset made no difference. Also the strobe was not active on the bell box, as this is controlled by the pannel, I assume that it is the bell box at fault. I pulled the mains power and battery from the pannel and the bell box stopped immediatly, so I'm guessing that either the bell box circuit has failed or the bell box battery is at fault.

I removed the cover from the bell box, and the tamper switch did not activate the alarm (I don't know if it would, considering the pannel was powered down). Could not see any obvious fault, but was unable to test the battery voltage (multimeter has a flat battery.......).

I would like to power the rest of the system up, and leave the bell box disconnected. I have snipped the bell + and - connections, but I need to know if I need or can leave the strobe (one wire connected to "strobe -") and two wires connected to, or just short the "SCB" terminals marked T and A (would I be right thinking this is the bellbox tamper?).

The pannel is connected to a dialer, which calls my mobile if an alarm occours, so I would like this to be reactivated. I just want to make sure the bell box will not go off in the middle of the night again, and that the rest of my alarm still works correctly.

The guy who installed the system retired last year and moved abroad, and one local company I called wanted to replace the whole system, rather than fault find. Another can't get round 'til next week.

Thanx for any help.

BTW I work with and build electronic logic circuits, so I'm OK with working on this, I just don't have the instalation manual for the alarm.

SS

[mjw]

I have an ADE Optima Compact alarm pannel, and an unknown make bell box (usual gubbins - sounder, tamper, strobe and battery backup) install is a little over 3 years old.

The bell box activated last night, even though the pannel was not active (daytime mode), nothing from the pannel (eg no sounder, or tamper light) and reset made no difference. Also the strobe was not active on the bell box, as this is controlled by the pannel, I assume that it is the bell box at fault. I pulled the mains power and battery from the pannel and the bell box stopped immediatly, so I'm guessing that either the bell box circuit has failed or the bell box battery is at fault.

I removed the cover from the bell box, and the tamper switch did not activate the alarm (I don't know if it would, considering the pannel was powered down). Could not see any obvious fault, but was unable to test the battery voltage (multimeter has a flat battery.......).

I would like to power the rest of the system up, and leave the bell box disconnected. I have snipped the bell + and - connections, but I need to know if I need or can leave the strobe (one wire connected to "strobe -") and two wires connected to, or just short the "SCB" terminals marked T and A (would I be right thinking this is the bellbox tamper?).

The pannel is connected to a dialer, which calls my mobile if an alarm occours, so I would like this to be reactivated. I just want to make sure the bell box will not go off in the middle of the night again, and that the rest of my alarm still works correctly.

The guy who installed the system retired last year and moved abroad, and one local company I called wanted to replace the whole system, rather than fault find. Another can't get round 'til next week.

Thanx for any help.

BTW I work with and build electronic logic circuits, so I'm OK with working on this, I just don't have the instalation manual for the alarm.

SS

Hi ss

you should be fine too power the rest of the system as it is......it does sound too me as if the bells at fault.....possibly the sab mod

[mjw]

I have an ADE Optima Compact alarm pannel, and an unknown make bell box (usual gubbins - sounder, tamper, strobe and battery backup) install is a little over 3 years old.

The bell box activated last night, even though the pannel was not active (daytime mode), nothing from the pannel (eg no sounder, or tamper light) and reset made no difference. Also the strobe was not active on the bell box, as this is controlled by the pannel, I assume that it is the bell box at fault. I pulled the mains power and battery from the pannel and the bell box stopped immediatly, so I'm guessing that either the bell box circuit has failed or the bell box battery is at fault.

I removed the cover from the bell box, and the tamper switch did not activate the alarm (I don't know if it would, considering the pannel was powered down). Could not see any obvious fault, but was unable to test the battery voltage (multimeter has a flat battery.......).

I would like to power the rest of the system up, and leave the bell box disconnected. I have snipped the bell + and - connections, but I need to know if I need or can leave the strobe (one wire connected to "strobe -") and two wires connected to, or just short the "SCB" terminals marked T and A (would I be right thinking this is the bellbox tamper?).

The pannel is connected to a dialer, which calls my mobile if an alarm occours, so I would like this to be reactivated. I just want to make sure the bell box will not go off in the middle of the night again, and that the rest of my alarm still works correctly.

The guy who installed the system retired last year and moved abroad, and one local company I called wanted to replace the whole system, rather than fault find. Another can't get round 'til next week.

Thanx for any help.

BTW I work with and build electronic logic circuits, so I'm OK with working on this, I just don't have the instalation manual for the alarm.

SS

Also to test a battery you/need to put a load onto it...as a rule a battery should be change evey 4-5 years...Taking the voltage is one thing but it does'nt tell you what condition the battery is in

[silicon skum]

Also to test a battery you/need to put a load onto it...as a rule a battery should be change evey 4-5 years...Taking the voltage is one thing but it does'nt tell you what condition the battery is in

Don't worry, I know all about testing batteries, I have a dummy load that pulls exactly 500ma and 1A. I have loads of SLA batteries of different sizes and Ahr ratings, but I didn't have any NiMh packs that would fit the bell box to test if it was the battery. Actually a bit surprised it used NiMh for the bell backup, these cells REALY don't last too long when connected to a constant trickle charge.

Just replaced the pannel standby with a very fresh SLA (production code = 3 months ago). Nothing wrong with the old one, but figured "while I'm in there...". Old SLA will find it's way into the workshop and be put to good use.

I did a bit of reverse engineering on the pannel circuit, looks like I had gussed right about the various connections and their uses. Alarm pannel is functioning correctly, and monitoring the bell connections showed nothing out of the ordinary, so looks like the bell box is at fault. going to modify the bell box to operate only as activation state (LED indicators on side) and stobe mode, no sounder. Bells only systems are ignored by most everyone these days anyway, even by the police!. Have plans to hook the alarm pannel up to an IP CCTV system I built from scratch, to force the server to record from the interior and rear yard cams (also uses motion detection software on the cams, so this will be a nice backup feature). on alarm activation I will be able to connect to the server and check the cam feeds, and possibly reset the alarm if needed. B)

Thanx for the help anyway. will prolly still hang around here, while I hook the alarm into the CCTV server, No doubt I will need help with the alarm functions and pinouts.

SS

[mjw]

Don't worry, I know all about testing batteries, I have a dummy load that pulls exactly 500ma and 1A. I have loads of SLA batteries of different sizes and Ahr ratings, but I didn't have any NiMh packs that would fit the bell box to test if it was the battery. Actually a bit surprised it used NiMh for the bell backup, these cells REALY don't last too long when connected to a constant trickle charge.

Just replaced the pannel standby with a very fresh SLA (production code = 3 months ago). Nothing wrong with the old one, but figured "while I'm in there...". Old SLA will find it's way into the workshop and be put to good use.

I did a bit of reverse engineering on the pannel circuit, looks like I had gussed right about the various connections and their uses. Alarm pannel is functioning correctly, and monitoring the bell connections showed nothing out of the ordinary, so looks like the bell box is at fault. going to modify the bell box to operate only as activation state (LED indicators on side) and stobe mode, no sounder. Bells only systems are ignored by most everyone these days anyway, even by the police!. Have plans to hook the alarm pannel up to an IP CCTV system I built from scratch, to force the server to record from the interior and rear yard cams (also uses motion detection software on the cams, so this will be a nice backup feature). on alarm activation I will be able to connect to the server and check the cam feeds, and possibly reset the alarm if needed. B)

Thanx for the help anyway. will prolly still hang around here, while I hook the alarm into the CCTV server, No doubt I will need help with the alarm functions and pinouts.

SS

You sound like you are having fun??????...You can still buy NiMh packs but just as easy to buy a new bell as its poss the S.A.B module which is causing you the problem....mind you could also be a high resistance fault on a tamper switch????

good luck anyway

[silicon skum]

You sound like you are having fun??????...You can still buy NiMh packs but just as easy to buy a new bell as its poss the S.A.B module which is causing you the problem....mind you could also be a high resistance fault on a tamper switch????

good luck anyway

Fun?, yeah, I love "hacking" new functions out of electronics! You would be surprised what new features can be added to existing hardware, with a little thought and creativity.

Already working on a simple way to link the panel to the CCTV server, prolly just straight into the parallel port (via an optoisolator), and just monitor for when the pin goes "high" or "low". Now wondering about using the server to send a txt message to my mobile about the state of the alarm condition, ie tamper or intruder, easily read from the panel LED indicators, opto's and another set of pins on the parallel port. I sense this may be a new project for a while. hehe.

Just need to keep the primary function - notifying me on alarm condition, as simple and error proof as possible, while the rest is just a nice feature that is not so "mission critical".

Good call on the tamper switch! I never thought about checking the resistance - DOH! will recheck continuity on the bell cable and yank the bell off the wall and give the circuit board and battery a going over later in the week. Still think I will end up dissabling the sounder, all it does is pee off the neighbours anyway. As long as I know an alarm has occoured, thats all that matters. Strobe should be "enough" indication there is something going on, should the police need to be called. Will prolly use an interior sounder instead, better to deffen the criminals, than my neighbours.

SS

[mjw]

Fun?, yeah, I love "hacking" new functions out of electronics! You would be surprised what new features can be added to existing hardware, with a little thought and creativity.

Already working on a simple way to link the panel to the CCTV server, prolly just straight into the parallel port (via an optoisolator), and just monitor for when the pin goes "high" or "low". Now wondering about using the server to send a txt message to my mobile about the state of the alarm condition, ie tamper or intruder, easily read from the panel LED indicators, opto's and another set of pins on the parallel port. I sense this may be a new project for a while. hehe.

Just need to keep the primary function - notifying me on alarm condition, as simple and error proof as possible, while the rest is just a nice feature that is not so "mission critical".

Good call on the tamper switch! I never thought about checking the resistance - DOH! will recheck continuity on the bell cable and yank the bell off the wall and give the circuit board and battery a going over later in the week. Still think I will end up dissabling the sounder, all it does is pee off the neighbours anyway. As long as I know an alarm has occoured, thats all that matters. Strobe should be "enough" indication there is something going on, should the police need to be called. Will prolly use an interior sounder instead, better to deffen the criminals, than my neighbours.

SS

Why not deffen both?????......As for a simple and error proof way of notifying you of an alarm why not fit a speech dialler...

[stewymac]

I have an ADE Optima Compact alarm pannel, and an unknown make bell box (usual gubbins - sounder, tamper, strobe and battery backup) install is a little over 3 years old.

The bell box activated last night, even though the pannel was not active (daytime mode), nothing from the pannel (eg no sounder, or tamper light) and reset made no difference. Also the strobe was not active on the bell box, as this is controlled by the pannel, I assume that it is the bell box at fault. I pulled the mains power and battery from the pannel and the bell box stopped immediatly, so I'm guessing that either the bell box circuit has failed or the bell box battery is at fault.

I removed the cover from the bell box, and the tamper switch did not activate the alarm (I don't know if it would, considering the pannel was powered down). Could not see any obvious fault, but was unable to test the battery voltage (multimeter has a flat battery.......).

I would like to power the rest of the system up, and leave the bell box disconnected. I have snipped the bell + and - connections, but I need to know if I need or can leave the strobe (one wire connected to "strobe -") and two wires connected to, or just short the "SCB" terminals marked T and A (would I be right thinking this is the bellbox tamper?).

The pannel is connected to a dialer, which calls my mobile if an alarm occours, so I would like this to be reactivated. I just want to make sure the bell box will not go off in the middle of the night again, and that the rest of my alarm still works correctly.

The guy who installed the system retired last year and moved abroad, and one local company I called wanted to replace the whole system, rather than fault find. Another can't get round 'til next week.

Thanx for any help.

BTW I work with and build electronic logic circuits, so I'm OK with working on this, I just don't have the instalation manual for the alarm.

SS

an alarm without a bell..am i missing something here... ..you can build all the electronic circs you like,i cook the tea everynight,but i couldnt run a restaurant..

[mjw]

an alarm without a bell..am i missing something here... ..you can build all the electronic circs you like,i cook the tea everynight,but i couldnt run a restaurant..

well you can only lead an horse to water.....getting him to drink is another thing all together

[silicon skum]

well you can only lead an horse to water.....getting him to drink is another thing all together

Actually, thats why I'm not changing over the basic install (txt / speech / GSM dialers etc.), it works, and it informs me when on alarm condition. Thats all I need, the extra functions are just a simple addition to the CCTV server functions (industrial PC based, embeded Linux OS - not your general home computer), and with no DIRECT connections to the alarm panel (all optoisolated) it will not affect the function of the alarm. As I stated earlier, these functions are not "mission critical", meaning if it doesn't work, it won't affect the outcome of the alarm condition alert to my phone. These are just a project that I plan to play with, nothing more.

As for the removal of the "bells", well........agreed it's a "cludge", but honestly, does ANYONE pay *any* attention to a house alarm "bell" anymore? Hell, when my bell box failed and sounded, my next door neighbour just called the council to report the alarm as faulty, without even checking if my house had been burgled, let alone inform the police! even the family across the street didnt know it was my alarm that was sounding as there was no strobe to indicate which alarm had triggered, and they didn't even report it either. :'(

Due to the type of work I now have, I'm never far from the house, and can be there quicker than a police response. Anyway the police now have a policy of NOT checking house alarms in my area due to the high number of false alarms due to poorly installed, poorly maintained (if ever) or low quality equiptment installed into homes. As evidenced by the dozen or so alarms that I can hear just from my back yard everytime there is a mains power interuption, which is fairly often, due to location close to an industrial estate (poor quality mains - spikes, brownouts, strange harmonic waveforms etc.). Now all the police and council do, it to FINE the householder of the alarm system, if it goes off / is reported more than 3 times in a given period. If you DO get burgled, the police usually don't bother to come out there and then, just give you a "crime number" for insurance claims (thats nice if you actually HAVE contents insurance....some can't afford it).

As for my competence with electronics, well I don't claim to be a great expert, but I have built far more complicated logic circuits, and peripheral devices (such as sonar range finders, nIR detection and tracking, PIR detection and aviodance systems, and robotic visual object detection and recognition), than most alarm systems could even possibly use.

As much as some people like to think alarm systems are god-like, very complex and sensitive devices that are only to be touched by the god-like proffessional, they are, after all, just a collection of very basic and cheap / standard components connected together (on the hardware level, programing is another matter).

BTW, not trying to dismiss professional installers / engineers, just pointing out that most would not even know where to begin to design and assemble an alarm control motherboard from the basic electronic components (MCUs, volatge regulators, capacitors, circuit board etching etc.) from scratch, as they are not necessarily trained in electronics engineering. Everyone has their own field of "expertise".

Sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go at anyone - Im not, Just I hear this sort of thing (the "God complex") all the time on other tech forums, and as an ex I.T and network tech - am guilty of it myself to some extent.

SS