Vince8282

I got on very well with him I often called him author mo because of his long posts and my condolences go out to his family and friends.

I am of the opinion that despite the technology improvements you always have the weakest link of relying on batteries so would never recommend any radio system. Having said that some systems work extreamly well with a lot of advantages that wired systems do not have but call me old fashioned I will never fit one voluntarily although I did last year but only due to the customers requesting it after decorating their house and didn't want any cables showing anywhere he he reminds me of the saying don't sell the customer what he needs sell him what he wants. With many customers now wanting radio wifi etc these days I am glad to give them what they want but refuse to fit the cheap ones that die without warning etc etc the more expensive ones give a warning months in advance of a break down/battery failure. I would still recommend wired before radio though.

Not much point really as the weather men can't accurately predict the temperatures so we have no chance to do so.

lol

Due to the 2nd law of thermodynamics ?

Yeah! batteries are a "specialist" subject on their own and of course good old ohm's law ends with "provided the temperature remains constant" (which it doesn't). The other situation comes into being too when you have a detector covering a high traffic area and comparing the life of it to the life of one stuffed (technical term) in a store room that is hardly ever entered.

I have found batteries of all types, descriptions and manufacturers to be like lamps they can last a long time or a short time and with wireless stuff when monitored gives an advanced warning. Even then when the sun comes out what appeared to be a failing battery has been recovered by the system until the next cold spell. What we tend to do is use the ones we find to be best as the above chart indicates and of course the use and therefore drainage of the battery will dictate to a great degree how long they will last. E.g. on the wireless sounders from Texecom I saw the note about the life of the batteries can be between 2 years or 4 or 5 years depending if you enable the "comfort" led's or not. If you do continuous bell testing this too will reduce the life of them. My biggest gripe about radio/wireless stuff is battery life. I see it as the weakest link in the security of the system even if the system proves to be great when working properly.

That's the same difference. They buy direct fit it themselves and then lie to get their money back when they say it didn't work. This aspect means they lie after they have paid so it's not the invoice factor (although that has always been a factor conventionally) its just that the average Joe hasn't got a clue. From a business point of view one requires to make a consistent and growing profit. From a customers point of view they just want something that works properly and consistently fit for the purpose it was bought for. So from a manufactures point of view they need a product or products that will serve the requests and desires of both the middle men and the end customer so go figure as they say over the pond!

That would just change the people who they would lie to Norman

Only those that lie through their teeth or thought they knew more than you as to how the alarm actually works However i don't think the manufactures can design that out

Hi Nicey My first recommendation would be to contact the firm that installed it. They will have records of what the exact system is and may know why or how the system was "crashed" the term crashed has more than one meaning e.g. it could mean that the system has failed for one reason or other, maybe a lightening strike in a storm or the previous owners may have ended the contract with them and the system was locked to prevent further use. It also may have been reset to factory default. It may be just powered down Some alarm companies who actually own the equipment leave their equipment in place in the hope that the next occupiers take up a new rental and maintenance contract with them. Find out if any of these things apply to your alarm: Once you have the answers to the above you can then decide whether you would like the same firm to sort it out for you or get quotes from others to either fix/repair or replace what you have as well as training you of the proper use of it.

My experience with this type of sensor is that they do just that i.e. sense pets. Having said that, knowing where and how to set them up properly according to the manufactures instructions gives reasonable protection with a small risk of unwanted (rather than false) alarms. The same goes for perimeter detection, if you set them up according to manufactures recommendations and instructions you are usually relatively free from unwanted alarms. Because of the nature of pets I don't think any manufacturer will guarantee that pets will never activate the alarm devices even if they are for so called "pet avoidance" I always recommend that pets are kept out of any alarmed areas if this is possible (and it always is one way or another) if not then the risk of occasional unwanted alarm must be accepted as part of the situation. In turn too many unwanted alarms will affect the response from the authorities and also the insurance in many instances and that is apart from key holders who may be fed up to turn out and of course neighbours who get fed up of the sounders going off

Yes it will work but as Charlie said the engineer who sets it up will know the sites circumstances and the appropriote programming for the best use of the customer and he will also spend time training the customer to ensure it works to his satisfaction. The chances are there will be a pir in the hall so that would be programmed to start the entry time when coming to unset the system in part set.

This has always been at the top of my list of manufacturers failing to do their research and development for themselves. There is nothing worse in my opinion of installing a panel and it has bugs that have been not picked up before releasing it. Hmmmm just wondering if there should be a compensation plan in place to reclaim lost time and embarrassment for unsuspecting installers who expect quite rightly that stuff should work fit for the purpose intended. I have a pet hate of some panels have very limited power supplies and transformers that are not changable without taking the enclosures off the wall to do so.

The vestibule PIR can be programmed as final exit too in part guard. Depending how big a vestibule you have my concern would be false alarms caused by opening the front door and the PIR activating before the contact on the front door dropped out.

Me too

The people in Burnley wondering why there is a shortage of pies

If I hadn't been so knackered it would not have been once. e.g. I should have found where the intermittent feed came from and isolated it before I started to replace the feed into the fused spur. The point is you should learn from your mistakes or better still learn from other peoples mistakes. This brings me back to the point of this thread or is there no point to it? What do you think?

I don't mind if I do norm what's yours? he he No really I am well insulated or just thick you decide. due to following strict procedures under health and safety I only received a shock once but that was in the 1980's The story goes like this: Called out to a bell ringer at the usual 3 am and as usual raining. The installation engineers had just handed over the alarm to customer that day so they were not happy. I found that there was no power going to the panel and no power coming in to the fused spur. Tested with superior equipment than Authors neon screwy and as the customer (it was a printers) was in a rush to get to bed he was happy now the bell had been silenced. for me to come back later on that day. Anyway I went back tested again for mains with my super dooper test equipment and it was still dead. So I picked up a new permanent feed and started to take the old/new feed out when I got a belt as the cable splashed between my thumb and fore finger. After the shock I used the tester again only to confirm the cable had now got mains voltage on it. I then got the panel up and running and reconnected the sa bell. I then traced the intermittent feed back to were the installers had tapped in for the feed and removed it. Yes you guessed it, into the central heating switched feed the gits. So never again shocked Simple ohms law explains why I lived to tell the tale.

Nothing shocks me these days

I wonder if he is still of the same opinion!

Yes I know he is from a similar stock as me and has the hex factor I just don't post as often as he does. I am a great observer though Again just out of curiosity has anyone seen how smart devices can read the details from credit cards etc using near field technology? Another question are they really smart?

Spot on Norm but there are always exceptions and lecturers are not necessarily teachers just like teachers by name are not all teachers even though they think they are and are often paid as such. Having said that people who can't teach have taught me a lesson or two It's like managers who couldn't manage to pass wind after a baked bean eating competition Anyway Norman , you wanted the thread to be left open so why was that?

I for one , like Adrian, am also intrigued. I know lots of lecturers that can not teach. While the question is insignificant in itself. the reason why it was ever asked is. Once Charlie informed us that he already has got all what he required on the subject why did he ask us? Nevertheless, my curiosity is more about the lecturer questioning the integrity of the term two way and if he is questioning it what is he teaching his students! Using the words interrogating, talking to etc etc in layman's terms could mean a host of things couldn't it? When I asked for the manufactures to chip in I was actually thinking of the Ricochette stuff which has devices that are bi directional so Adrian, how would you or your techie people describe the process that takes place say between devices which can be used as repeaters and control panels?

I'm fine Charlie, thanks for asking. My contribution is purely to point out that it doesn't really matter whether it is two or one way it either works or it doesn't. If it works everybody is happy, if it doesn't use something that does. Why the toss with a boffin he either has proof of his assertion and therefore requires no refutable evidence as he can provide all the evidence himself. The onus of proof is on him not anyone else. If as already been stated by a number of our star members, if we know which particular devices he is talking about we may be able to give a clear yes or know answer. As Mark Twain said its not what you know that gets you into trouble its what you think you know that just ain't so. that does. I remember all those alarm people who were trained as sparkies who took ages to get around the terms "normally open and normally closed" Sometimes it is just how each person understands how the definitions are applied and how the perspectives of each can confuse the issue. I also understand the limitations of the written word not being the best form of communication That said....for what reason did you ask your question in the first place? Do you agree with the lecturer? Are you not sure yourself? Have you committed to a point of view and desire moral support? In any event if you ask the right questions you will usually get the right answers When all the evidence is weighed up there is no need for judgement as all becomes obvious. Another quote just for fun but also very true, I think it was one of Oscar Wild although I may not be correct: Only fools and dead men never change their opinions Maybe there are some manufactures of such devices that can enlighten us all on the definitions used for one way and two way and then we may be nearer to the answers you seek. What do you think?