Eugene's DIY Den

Checked all the zone types. All "alarm" except a panic zone and entry/exit door zone.

Ok, so setting spit entry time to zero solved the problem. Now there's no delay between internal sounder and external bell activating when the entry door is opened and code isn't entered before the entry delay times out. However I still have an issue with alarmed internal doors and PIRs not activating the alarm if the entry door is opened first and these sensors are activated before the entry delay times out. So for example I open an external door, panel starts beeping, I don't enter the code and I open an alarmed internal door. The internal sounder activates, but not the outside bell. (didn't check if there's a delay before it actually does) Are these zones walk through by default?

On my system startup diagram, split entry is 30 by default. I changed it to 0. I'll check later today if this rectified the problem.

I thought reentering the value of 0 for the bell delay had made a difference but I double checked and it hadn't so I don't think there is corruption.

Still another bit of the saga left! This time I used a stopwatch. When I trigger the alarm using an entry door, and let the countdown timeout without disarming with a code, the bell sounds 30 seconds after the internal sounder (I thought changing the delay setting made a difference, but it didn't). When I trigger by opening an alarmed internal door, the bell sounds immediately, followed by the internal sounder a couple of seconds later. So I guess this 30 second delay is by design to allow a user to cope with the alarm going off and disable it when they hear the sounder inside if they exceed the timeout?

Further update! Triggered alarm again. Internal sounder activated. Waited to see what happened. This time the external bell sounded about 20 seconds after internal sounder. Checked bell delay in settings and it was zero. Edited it again and changed to 0 and resaved and this seemed to sort the problem. Setting in RAM must have got corrupted, but the delay should have affected both bell and sounders. Very confusing.

Update! Checked voltage between ext. bell + and - on panel and it was 0v. Activated alarm after arming by releasing tamper spring on panel. Bell sounded. Checked same voltages. 12 v this time so ext. bell - on panel must be going low, activating trig - on bell.

As I understand it from this schematic, SAAB hold on the panel is the power ground for the bell, it's marked 0v on both panel and bell. So if the core from the panel to the bell was broken, the bell wouldn't even be powered. (Maybe it isn't, the LEDs are lit, but I need to check if they are powered separately from the strobe inputs). There's an open collector NPN transistor connected to external bell minus on the panel. Is this driven on in an alarm condition, pulling the external bell minus input on the bell low? Or is it on and turned off when there's an alarm? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to understand how the thing works before I start measuring voltages and doing continuity checks ☺

No. Just repeating reply above, (edit timed out out and I couldn't save) Not delibarately, but it's possible. Where is this in the menu? If you mean a physical terminal, not a logical output, no I didn"t change it. Do we know which terminal the panel pulls low when it tests the bell? Bell hold-off or Ext bell minus? That test sounds the bell. If the bell is sounded by one of the outputs being pulled low, a broken core in cable would explain why its not working. However if the output is normally held low and floating it triggers the alarm, a break wouldn't cause a trigger. I still dont understand how the circuit works. If I could see a schematic I would understand what to expevt with a meter.

Not delibarately, but it's possible. Where is this in the menu? If you mean a physical terminal, not a logical output, no I didn"t change it. Do we know which terminal the panel pulls low when it tests the bell? Bell hold-off or Ext bell minus? That test sounds the bell.

That's what I'm trying to find in the menu. Is there an option for internal sounder or external sounder or both enabled? I think possibly I disabled the external sounder and forgot to reenable it. I'll check the long form of the instsllation guide (working off the "system startup" menu diagram at the moment)

External bell was working fine. It's an HKC SABB bell according to the installation leaflet, not sure if there's additional model number codes, will check. Internal sounder is wireless, an HKC RF-Echo, what do you meam by "internal sound", the alarm sound?

I have been doing some insulation installation, so cables have been moved around a bit. However if a core broke, wouldn't I know about it? E.g a report of a tamper fault or the bell would sound due to loss of 12V, ground or trigger? Hopefully if an internal sounder is installed, it doesn't disable the external one? That would be silly.

Bell delay is 0.

I installed an internal sounder last year which works fine. However I recently discovered that my external sounder isn't working. When I do a bell and light test 0#9, it checks out ok. I can't remember whether I disabled the sounder when I was working on the panel last year, is there a setting in the menu which enables external bell, internal sounder or both? I can't seem to find it. The external bell timer is set to the default 15 minutes.

55 seconds by default according to the manual, however the panel starts beeping a few seconds after loosing power and when I enter the code it tells me about the fault. I may have changed the setting or maybe this is the reporting delay before an SMS is sent?

In the SMS - Phone options menu: Report alarm yes Report system fault yes Report device yes Report test yes All the others are set to no. Ok, they don't mention it in the GSM unit installation manual, I'll check the panel manual.

I don't get any SMS notification on mains failure.

I've just installed a HKC GSM - Q unit in my panel. SMS options allow the reporting of "System Faults". I thought this might include mains failure, but it doesn't when the option is set to "yes". Is a "system fault" loss of battery power to the board and some other things?

On older "dumber" panels, would it have been less than this?

Yes, I'm in Ireland. I presume firmware upgrades can be installed via an RS232 serial connection to a laptop or similar, but you have to be a professional installer to download them from the manufacturer's website. I'm curious though what constitutes an alarm condition on a sensor. I.e how long contacts have to be open in order to trigger the panel. If this was relatively long, it could make the panel more immune to transients. A magnetic contact/ PIR contact would probably open for 100ms. A transient could be shorter, but the software might detect it if it's scanning everything rapidly. On a couple of occasions with my old panel, a zone triggered with the panel armed when I pulled out a mains plug. The alarm cable was quite close to the mains cable though.

Not sure, it's two years old. Why do you ask?

I notice since I installed my new SW 10-70 panel, I haven't had any false alarms. Separate tampers for each zone, so the sum of series resistances is less (11 sensors plus junction boxes, bell box, keypads etc). Maybe the immunity against transients spikes and bad connections due to tarnished tamper connections in junction boxes is better?

Just belt-and-braces.

Set the PIR up on a zone an excluded it from my part sets, so all's well. Thanks for the help!