george.h

Potentially even a literal "bug" in the sensor.... depending on how well sealed it is....

Thanks! Anything else I find I will, naturally, post.... At least I can now get on with building an installation around it (it is a very bespoke application) without anymore (yet!) unexplained behaviours - this one now having been satisfactorily explained (and proved!).

Well that was fun - in a "nerdy" sort of way! Have just done a quick test of the "Battery Low" condition alert on this Pyronix V2 Tel. Programmed my mobile number into it, configured my mobile number to be called in the event of "Battery Low" and recorded the "Battery Low" alert message. I also programmed output 1 to follow the Battery Low status. I then plugged it into my home landline, turned the PSU down from 12.5V to 11.30V (official threshold is 11.5V) and waited. About 30 mins later it called me (with both the power LED flashing, indicating low input voltage, and output 1 status LED also flashing - indicating, as programmed, lower battery). It waited 2-3 seconds then hung up. It then called me again, and this time I answered "Hello" and it replayed the "Battery Low" alert message then asked me for the acknowledge code (which I couldn't remember) so I switched off.

Well I think that's the "low supply voltage" condition threshold for the Pyronix V2 Tel reasonably pinned down (at least for the unit I have) to between 12.10V and 12.20V. When the supply voltage drops to 12.10V for 20+ mins the power LED starts flashing. Take it back up to 12.20V for 20+ mins, the power LED stops flashing and stays on steady. To pin it down more precisely I'd have to retrieve my programmable digital lab PSU from work- it gives more precise control - and borrow one of the UKAS calibrated Fluke DMMs to verify it's actual output (I've not checked my DMMs at home against the work ones for a while). I may as well test the "Battery Low" alert functions which dials on or more of the programmed numbers if the supply voltage drops below 11.5V. Interesting though, and confirms what Pyronix (reluctantly) told me about the flashing power LED indicating low supply voltage. Would have been far simpler if they just put that in the installation/programming instructions (along with the actual threshold value) where it belongs. Would have taken, what, two lines to describe..... Fully explains the behaviour I've been seeing using the fixed 12V PSU's I've been using, as they were giving out 12.04V (SMPS "brick") and 11.76V (plug linear PSU). I must have made an error with the 12.5V I quoted for the 3rd PSU.

Indeed I could SWB.... I shall be doing that over the weekend, as it seems to take 20+ minutes for it recognise and flag low supply voltage conditions - at least that is what seems to happen. So it will be a case of start at the current 13.75V, which I've found it is happy with, then step it down (say) 0.25V at a time until it starts flashing, leaving it for 30-60 minutes between each step. Once I find the first voltage at which it starts flashing, I can then start stepping it back up, this time at (say) 0.1V until it stops. Then go back down again, still at 0.1V per step, until it starts. That will also help characterise any hysteresis in the low supply sensing. I can also take it down to, and below, the 11.5V Low Battery level and verify it correctly flags that and tries dialling numbers to send voice alerts of the Low Battery condition, and again back up to check the Battery Restored alerts. I know it states the level in the manual, but given there are a reasonable number of errors in the instructions it would be good to verify it. Probably seems a bit "overkill" to you pro's, but hell I've got the dialler, the variable PSU, the time and I'd like to know. And it could be useful info to others in the future....

I agree totally - it certainly is a very good idea, and a very useful feature. Especially as one of it's other features is the ability to record "Battery Low" and "Battery Restored" messages, and program it to dial one or more of it's (up to) 9 predefined numbers to alert when the condition occurs - the "battery low" threshold being defined in the manual as 11.5V. This is in addition to being able to configure one of the 4 programmed outputs to follow the "Battery Low" status. By default output 4 is configured to follow the PSTN line status (normal/line fault). However, not making the slightest mention of the fact that the power LED flashing means something, where it matters in the installation/programming manual, is rather dumb of Pyronix.

The installation/programming instructions specify a range, 10-14.9V DC, but all the illustrations and even the PCB markings say 12V. My bench PSU tests this evening though have been revealing (and reassuring as it confirms Pyronix explanation of the behaviour): Operate the V2 Tel according to the instructions, illustrations, and PCB markings, off 12V DC and within around 30 mins of being powered up the power LED will start to flash at 1Hz (50% duty cycle). The time before flashing starts is shorter with SMPS, possibly indicating a susceptibility to the harmonics many SMPS have on their outputs . I've tried this with four different supplies now: 12V 2A SMPS (actual output under load 12.04V) - flashing occurs 12V 800ma, regulated linear (actual output under load 11.75V)- flashing occurs 12V 3A fixed regulated linear bench supply (actual output under load 11.88V) - flashing occurs 0-30V 3A variable bench supply (voltage set to 13.75V using external DMM) - no flashing, power LED stays on steady So, when operated from the AUX output of typical alarm panels, it should be fine. However, follow the instructions and give it 12V and it will flash with NO explanation in the installation/programming or end user instructions as to what it means. Now most areas of electronics if you specify your device/equipment requires 12V DC, it should operate properly of 12V, not do strange (undocumented) things unless you actually give it 13.75V. In most alarm type scenarios it probably doesn't make a lot of difference, as the AUX will probably be higher anyway. The PSU designs are (usually) pretty simple linear supplies with trickle charging for the back-up lead acid batter (so will have to chuck out over 12V for this) and (often) little more than a blocking diode to provide switch-over to battery in the event of mains failure. Commercial/industrial grade panels would I suspect be rather more sophisticated. However if using the V2 Tel in stand-alone mode, or using a separate PSU to drive it, ignore what the manual says and give it near the top end of its supply range.

Thanks for that insight SWB - I'll give it a try on 13.6-14.5V (say) and report back... Much appreciated! George

Hi SWB, Thanks for your feedback! Very true about not knowing if it is intended behaviour or not, without either another unit to compare, or Pyronix actually putting it in the b****y manual! LOL At the moment it is still on the workbench while I become familiar with it and it's "foibles" - of which this could be one. I will give it another try tonight on one of my variable bench PSUs turned up 13/14V, see if that makes a difference. The reasoning behind that is, while reading the Wickes Alarm post from someone else, I had a quick look at the install manual for those C&K Securit 800L panels, particularly the PSU output voltage. That is spec'd to give 13.7V DC, so it is still conceivable that I'm making a false assumption that 12V should be fine. I suppose that leads on to a follow up question, which really does call on your collective pro experience. What typically is the AUX output voltage of most panels? My assumption of 12V could well be wrong, and when powered from a typical panel may well get fed with somewhat more than 12V. If that is the case, Pyronix's explanation of "low input voltage" could very well be correct - which I'll hopefully verify one or t'other tonight. The initial requirement my friend had was, if he spotted someone dodgy on the CCTV (live or via the alert emails), connect to the site and say "Oi you! Yes you in the red hoody and naff trainers!"- but without spending £400 on something like a Axis C3003-E network horn speaker. Plus he would prefer to dial-in rather than do it over the internet (limited bandwidth to the site and zero chance of fibre for <£15K, as even though it has lots of old PSTN line pairs coming in, they are all EO)

LOL - I'll try not to, but I'd definitely want to read through the installation/programming manual before even thinking about buying one. Having said that, unless/until I put a panel in at this remote storage site, which actually belongs to a very close friend - the only person I install anything for other than myself - I've no plans for any installations. Even the two venerable Securit 800Ls are still giving very good service, as the same close friend lives in the house I put them in (one for the house, one for two outbuildings). Beyond a little TLC, periodic new batteries in both the panels and the Flashguard Xtra siren/strobe units, they still work fine. Strangest problem they've ever given, and even then the manuals still helped, was when the siren on the house unit kept randomly going off one night. That was caused by ants! A rose bush "climber", which my friend had allowed to grow up to the Flashguard on the house, had allowed ants to climb up to the unit. On that miserable wet night - it was raining - the wet ants got inside the unit and formed a bridge (as ants do) intermittently shorting out the 12V feed from the panel, causing the siren to sound using the internal battery (exactly as detailed in the manual). All without causing any trigger event on the panel itself.

Hi SWB/al-yeti, That's the thing - the installation/programming manual makes no mention of the power-LED at all, on/off/flashing or anything else. The distributor says one thing, Pyronix suggest something completely different (a power issue or possibly faulty unit) but weren't being very forthcoming beyond that. Neither mentioned anything about a "stand-by mode" and there is no suggestion of it even existing in the installation/programming manual I do find devices, especially security devices, which have unexplained behaviors/and or failure modes deeply suspicious and untrustworthy. I just thought I'd ask the pro's for their opinions, before seeing if I can prise anything more useful out of Pyronix. I have to say that, as a first experience of Pyronix, I don't like them purely because the installation manual is pretty noddy (C&K Securit 800L - put a couple of those in a previous place I lived years ago - is somewhat clearer and that is ancient) and, as a company, not very helpful (not as bad as some, not mentioning Honeywell LOL).

Hi, I have a Pyronix V2 Tel Speech Dialler (the PSTN version, NOT the GSM one). The application is to install it at remote (semi-rural) storage site to compliment the existing remote access HD CCTV system I've already put in (and which works well). The V2 Tel is going to be used entirely in it's stand-alone mode - i.e. it is not (at this stage) going to be connected to a panel or use any of it's 6 inputs. They may be brought into use later, but initially it's main function is to provide dial-in remote control to switch on/off some devices (via it's 4 remotely controlled outputs) and "speak to site" (eventually via an external amplified speaker as it has external speaker connections). Both functions it provides. I've done the initial programming and testing (on workbench prior to installation), and both work nicely dialling in via PSTN and the Remote Access Menu. However, it has thrown up one odd behaviour about which the installation/programming manual says absolutely nothing (and neither does the slimmer user manual). On the workbench (whether plugged into a PSTN line or not) connected to a 12V DC power supply, after about 20-45 mins the "power on LED" (the far left indicator at the top - the other 4 indicate the output states - see attached pic), normally on steady, starts to flash at about 1Hz (0.5s off, 0.5s on). According to the dealer this is because it can't see a panel - except all the inputs are disabled as it is being used in "stand alone" mode, not connected to a panel. I've tried configuring the inputs as OPEN, and using "Auto Learn" function to that it learns the current input status as the default "non-alarm/normal" condition. No difference. When I eventually prised some information out of Pyronix they say it is because input voltage (i.e. power feed) is too low. Hmmmm... It's specified to run from 10-15V DC, and I've tried it with a 12V 2A brick type SMPS (giving out 12.04V under load with the V2 Tel), a 12V 800ma linear plug in PSU (giving out 11.76V connected to the V2 Tel), and a bench top variable 3A PSU set for 12.5VDC. ALL still do it, although the linear supplies take longer. I'd just like to know if anyone else has came across this before I contact the distributor and arrange to return it as "faulty" - which is the only other thing Pyronix suggested. Much appreciated George