Andyha

Hi Earplugs or ear defenders are a bit of a must (mind you I don't recall bothering when I was doing this, but that was in the 80's.) The sounder will be a self activating device and will have a battery in it. Remove the cover (will activate the sounder) and disconnect the battery internal to the sounder. That should silence the sounder - unless it is being driven active by the panel. Mark the cables at both ends or take good photos so that you know what the cores do. Disconnect the + and - at the panel to make the cables in the sounder "safe". At this point you should be OK to disconnect the sounder (it is not a bad idea to put the cores into a connector block to keep them from touching. For the new sounder, + and - is obvious. Terminals marked T are for tamper - take these down to an input on the panel (don't forget the resistor matrix unless the new sounder has selectable resistors). You can possible use the panel T terminal but that is a power return so you would have to work out which of the two T terminals on the sounder will connect to the single panel T terminal. "bell" is the sounder input - this connect to the panel output programmed as "Intruder" - looks like 1003. "Strobe" will go to 1004 by the look of it. As Al-yeti has advised this required a 6 core (which it looks like you have from the picture) but you can't use the "eng hold" terminal unless you can get away with a single T core. Either set the jumpers on the sounder to match the programming of the panel or change the panel to match the jumpers. Don't mix and match programming and jumpers - there lies the path to madness

Very good point on battery size and quality. Assuming the original installer correctly sized the battery, the new one should be the same size as the old one. 7AH is generally a minimum size for that type of panel but it is correct the battery size should be established through measurement and calculation. Quality of battery - again correct (as with all things, you get what you pay for) - As far as I am aware Yuasa is a good brand - been around for many years (I used to use them when I was on the tools in the '80s.) Depending on programming the manager code can normally reset a tamper alarm - so opening the panel and resetting the resulting alarm should be OK. No one (on this forum) will know the programming so, as advised, it is sensible to make arrangements to have an engineer available. Note though only the engineer who programmed the panel will know the engineer code so you might be in for a full factory default and reprogram. I don't recall if the new panels have an engineer code reset function - never needed to look - would have to check the manual for that. Good luck

Hi there. This could also present if you have separate PSU's around the property Battery is most likely 12V 7AH - like https://www.toolstation.com/esp-12v-7ah-alarm-panel-battery/p51879 The need for an engineer code is an unknown as it depends on how the panel is configured. It is likely not - open the panel will create a tamper event - silence with the manager code. The battery should be marked with what it is and generally should be laid flat within the enclosure I hope that helps

Would a small, simple access control system do this better? PAC, Paxton, Grosvenor Sateon, Nedap AEOS etc Use input only boards to collect alarm contacts and use the mapping of the server software to display the site and the location of any detector in alarm?

Hello Normally you don't - that is, you don't not set the siren off. There is not normally a back door - if there was it would not be long before the bad guys knew it or worked it out. Assuming the siren is correctly set up any attempt to remove it from the wall or take the cover off should set of the siren once it is enabled. Inside there may be a connection or switch to silence the sounder (for example for shipping and installation). Best bet is to google the instructions (if you don't already have them) which will tell you what to do to enable the siren (and therefore what to do to silence/disable it). Wear ear defenders when initially working on the siren/sounder - as you can imagine they are even louder when you are close up. be very careful if you are at height - you know it is going to go off but even so it can be very loud and this increases the danger if at height. Also be careful of your cable route - it needs to be "inside the protected area" to be protected from attack/sabotage/tampering or it needs to be within suitable physical protection (such as steel conduit) if external. This matters if the alarm is associated with any insurances etc, less so if it is a DIY system but it is nevertheless important to keep it secure. I hope that helps

For the benefit of Artur1975 the original poster who may not be helped by debates on colour coding of cores, you will see there are multiple options for the cores. I recall, back in the 80's that lots of companies (Thorn, Moderns, Security Centres, Grantly, Acorn, MR, BT, Custodian (and many more)) used red/black for power, green white for tamper and blue/yellow for alarm. However some companies may well have used other colour combinations. The point is that the only way to establish what the colour code used is, is to look and see and meter and measure. Don't know why the text above went bold - a copy mistake probably and has no significance

Harsh but probably true Unless however you like retro. By convention, back in the "good" old days the alarm pair would have been blue and yellow and the tamper pair would have been green and white. Go to the panel and see what coloured cores are connected to zone 3 alarm. trace those to the cable to see if the cable is 6 or 8 core. If 6 core then there is no reset line however a reset can sometimes be performed by dropping the power (positive) to the line of vipers. To be honest, back then a resetting line for vipers was a bit of a rarity unless actually specified by an external designer. If the cable is 8 core then check which core is connected to the reset switch - often the orange core. The advise above to put a link in the alarm circuit of the panel is very wise - this will prove the circuit itself. This will also give you the core colours. The vipers will be marked on the circuit board. However if not you can work out the connections. Red & black power (very rare to be anything else). The tamper switch is normally identified T- and T+ - it is quite possible to put a meter across and open and close the tamper which will identify the contacts. Only 4 connections left. The reset and latch are normally at the end of the connection bank. It is likely that one will be not connected and if there is a reset switch one will be connected and that is likely to be an odd colour (like the orange of the orange/brown pair. Once you have worked out the connections of the viper and the colour code you will need to go to each device and find which is open circuit. The final device in the line will have only one cable in while the others will have two cables in and cores will be jointed - unless that is any of the devices are starred back to a central junction. I will have the connection "manual" for the viper - in the shed I will see if I can dig it out and send it to you. There are many variables to look at so it is a case of working through the various options until you can establish what is what. New vipers are available (a honeywell product now) and are a like for like swap out I hope that helps and does not complicate things too much.

Just power the bell/siren direct off the battery while you work on the panel. This will hold the SAB silent. There will be a short blip (duration of however long it take you to remake the connection) I normally prewire a common neg and only disconnect and reconnect the positive. Use a lead with a spade terminal one end and an insulated crock clip the other (or crocks both ends)

No - reset is done with the PIN. Don't forget this is a burglar alarm so at it's heart is security - it's not supposed to be powered down and up again to reset - otherwise the burglar would be able to do that! If you don't know how then you will need to check the manual. If you don't have the manual you can search the interweb? for it. If it needs an engineer reset that will be a different code - if you don't know the engineer's code you will need the engineer's manual which should tell you how to default the panel (which is not just powering it down and back on again). Again, search the interweb.

I would think the panel is still "in alarm". Perhaps it needs to be reset, possibly engineer reset (different code) It is common for the sounder to silence but for the strobe to continue to activate - this was to indicate where the alarm activation was. It is unlikely that the bell/sounder/strobe assembly has just developed a fault - credit to you for disconnecting wires and measuring voltages etc but you might be heading towards the "somethings gone wrong" route when in fact the answer is most likely more simple.

Hello all I thought I would drop into this one as it's an interesting topic Assuming this is a standard transformer (no reason to assume otherwise) it is fairly simple: I have done this myself before where the old panel is not replaceable and the only thing failed is the transformer. I would rather spend what £20 on the transformer that £100 on a whole panel noting though that of the transformer has failed the panel may follow (it can be counter productive to keep old systems going as they will fail totally eventually). Things to watch for: Output voltage of the new transformer: Again assuming this is juYost the transformer (i.e. not a PSU (which includes the transformer plus other components)) This is measured as AC and is normally higher than the DC output. I have in the back of my mind that at 12V DC PSU will have a secondary transformer coil at 19V AC. That might not be precise but it's always higher because of the losses of the PSU. Output Load. of the new transformer. The new transformer needs to be able to supply the load - often quoted in VA or Watts the new transformer must match or exceed. Physical size and fixings: This is the most difficult to match in my experience - if you can find a new transformer with the same fixings, sizes and spacing then it is a simple enough drop in. If not use one existing fixing and you may have to drill a hole and use a very short self tapper for the other fixing (assumes two fixings of course). There's little point in taking the box off the wall to get a nut and bolt fixing - if you go to that amount of effort you are close to new panel territory. Make sure you pick up any hard earths - often a round soldered or crimp terminal held in place by the fixed post fixing of the transformer. Make sure you fully isolate the box from the supply - there should be a disconnect unit (fused spur (switched or unswitched)) close by so isolate at that. This is double important if you are having to drill the box to make sure bits of swarfe do not drop into a live connection. Personally I think this is DIY territory - it's not that complex - but I do get the point that in the commercial/professional world it is most likely too much trouble for the value to be gained. Your competency is tested by the results: Still doesn't work - possibly not competent, Bit of a bang or flash - clearly not competent, Years of continued service from the panel - competent Good luck

Ceiska I am going to add some answers to your post but I agree with others that there is really too much detail here. Question - what is your motivation for seeking this information. Do you want to get into security, are you just curious or are you an aspiring burglar Whatever the reason while I can see your are interested you need to get a job in the industry. This is a practical industry: you need to install this stuff for much of this information to mean anything. There are a myriad of options and alternatives and many different ways of achieving the same outcome all of which can be correct in some circumstances and incorrect (or not the best way) in other circumstances You also need to undergo vetting to demonstrate that you are a fit and proper person to know about security systems. I recommend: A) get a copy of the EN50131 suite and BS8243. There are other standards but these will help Don't ask me for these and perhaps don't ask this forum for them Also look for guideline document from NSI, BSIA and ABI B) self fund some proper training: Tavcom do excellent distance training (although I have not evaluated myself) C) seek employment with an alarm/security company. The majors (ADT, Chubb etc) may have apprentice schemes To your questions: 1) Yes, you have to program (more configure) the panel. Although "intelligent" these panels don't program themselves. Although some may argue they are more clever than the engineer installing? The configuration will be in accordance with the original design as varied (if necessary) during installation. If no original design then it will be to the installation plan that you would develop hour 1 of day 1 of arriving at site with a box of bits and some tools 2) Yes, of course the results are documented - otherwise how can you prove you did it? It's unlikely you will get copies of documents but as they are company specific but an internet search may find something 3) This depend who installed the system. If you installed it and are now commissioning it you will know what you did right and wrong. If you deliberately did something wrong then you should not be in this game. If you are commissioning someone else's work then it is your job, your responsibility, your duty to thoroughly commission which means you diligrntly check everything that needs checking. 4) You need to be vetted and be trained to discuss signalling. There are different types and the correct commissioning of each is critical. What you have indicated is largely correct however 5) If you know how a meter works you will understand the type of readings to be taken. Actually you should be able to make up your own record sheet from this. As 2 above it is not likely you will get a copy of someone's meter reading record sheets as they are proprietary to each company 6) Class and grades are in the standards above. This sets the autonomy of the system under mains fail conditions and with the load calculations (or measurements) and recharge currents will help calculate the battery size 7) I suggest you find some installation instructions for sounders and panels, read them to see how a sounder is connected to a panel and this will answer these questions ? More a communication system. Yes, generally it will connect to an ARC. STU is one device that can be used within the communications system 9) Bell delay is normally to give the intervention response time to arrive and apprehend/detail before the intruder is warned the system has activated 10) Part of the communication system to give an indication if the communication path is out of service. To conclude: Obtain the documents above and read them. This will give you more detail from which you could ask more targeted questions: however I would be wary of going into too much more detail than this given the vetting issue.

I think we would have to agree to disagree Note also that the basis of this thread is to help the original poster. All I am saying is "do be careful" So you may be right that it is "not true" under certain circumstances, with certain insurers and with certain polices, however the time to find out I am right is not after a claim is refused So I repeat: "do be careful"

Good point well made on 6A/H battery and caution Must admit I had not done the load to amp/hour calculation while writing that post Hopefully useful to the original post and yes, far to many will run a 1A PSU at 950mA load or more cos it can so it must be right

There was, I think, a bit of an issue with COTs G4 panels being self assessed at G4 as opposed to being independently tested. There was also an issue with detectors which have to be mapped to the panel at G4 I believe, so a detector from manufacturer A would not work with manufacturer B's alarm panel because of the encrypted protocol exchange between the two. It's interesting that some believe G3 is OTT and inappropriately specified by architects and engineers alike - heaven help us all if G4 became the base standard for all those who just pick the highest number from the standard because it must be the best So it's just as well there's very few G4 systems available and a very constrained supply chain at that

No offence taken But Not a comment of a great deal of assistance to the original poster It is a well documented issue - Thank you PeterJames for your post Speak to the ABI for more examples and for their general advise to their members on what constitutes "using all means available" It is a fact that if you leave a window open or unlocked or fail to lock your doors it is seen as thus and may affect any payout. I agree though that it is both policy specific and subject to the claim details and insurance claim assessors due diligence in asking about measures that could have created an insecurity that contributed to a loss As always with board brush statements on both sides, the reality is often somewhere in the middle.

Agreed the capacity of the PSU must be adequate to support quiescent current and recharge of battery at the same time. Thus I specify PSU load to be not greater than 50% PSU capacity. What seems like a simple question has quite a complex set of answers

Interesting The quiescent current of the system is the load off the battery when there is no mains power noting that in systems with multiple distributed PSU's the load is in fact taken for each PSU (it is not aggregated) The alarm load is similarly taken for each PSU with the alarm activated (i.e. sounders and strobes, any relays and other alarm loads being driven I don't believe the recharge load to the battery, while very important, counts in this calculation The calculation is for establishing the simple battery autonomy. For each battery you take the quiescent current and a number of alarm event current values for defined periods (say the 20min statutory alarm cutoff period) add them up and work out how long each battery in the system will last for. With a requirement for 12 or 24hr battery autonomy you then work out whether the fixed size battery will last long enough, whether a larger battery or battery array in required or whether to shed load from a PSU to another to get the battery to last The recharge current and recharge time is specified in EN 50131 and is an important property of the PSU capability but is not part of the alarm and normal (quiescent) load calculation as far as I am aware

Some wise words going on here Most (probably all) insurers that require an alarm to be fitted as a condition of insurance mandate the use of an NSI or SSAIB accredited installer and that it has a maintenance contract (and that it is serviced at a frequency in accordance with the requirements for the system type). I doubt any accredited installer would be happy to install the alarm and certify it without having a maintenance contract and not just because of the revenue stream associated with said maintenance contract. Some may but will caveat their quote against any liability if the alarm fails to operate having not been maintained. If the system requires signalling (insurance requirement) then the maintenance contract is mandatory and your URN is conditional on frequency and repeated maintenance. I don't believe the requirement for an alarms follows you - but your risk profile does and you are obliged to give full disclosure to any prospective insurer. That said some insurers may take a different view on risk than others so some may not require an alarm while others do. However you must disclose the same circumstances to all insurers equally Do be careful about having any security system (declared or not) and not using it. A bit like having a front door lock and not locking the door, if you have an alarm (regardless of requirement) and fail to use it the insurer could take the view that you have not used all means available to you to secure the premises and could reduce or refuse any claim in the event of a burglary. Jury's out on whether this would apply to Ring and similar products.

There are no grade 4 IAS panels on the commercial off the shelf market in the UK. Grade 4 is only available to Government/Military who need an additional level of security. There are very few (like 2) grade 4 detectors - also not available as COTs Assume it is for signalling only or ask for a Threat and Risk Assessment that informs a G4 solution.

Bit late to contribute but to add to this: I agree with what PeterJames has written. In addition in larger and integrated systems there is an additional step of "setting to work" In high security environments commissioning include empty building full set and each detector is activated. This needs considerable planning and some engineering interventions to avoid multiple activations as the tester moves around the protected areas to activate detection, especially perimeter line detection. It also needs the special simulation detection for equipment like acoustic glass break detection. Often it is necessary to isolate devices on the travel path to allow false activation free movement from the outer edges of each protected area to the centre. Commissioning also includes simulations of mask and fault conditions for each and every detector. In very high security systems I have seen simulations of spoof techniques to confirm the detectors selected function correctly under such an action. Each detector is tested, including any sequential verification arrangements and including parameters and names/locational information. Setting to work then comes in where each sub system of an integrated solution is interconnected and the cause and effect matrix configured and tested. This is often a full repeat of the commissioning of each sub system but with the cause and effect enabled. The sub systems should be fully tested first and only once they have passed the commissioning phase are they connected to the integration layer (or to each other). This means any problems with the integration are known not to be being inherited from the sub system in question. Cause and effect is about things like calling cameras to presets and calling cameras to monitors, access control lockdowns etc, measuring response times between the source/cause event and the final effect event. There's a lot of work to do it right and a lot of pre planning and client sign-off before it commences, often involving burning the candle at both ends Hope that adds to your understanding