Security Know Nothing Advice Request

[Guest Consultant]

Hi All,

Hopefully this is the place to ask my Intruder Alarm questions. Any and all help appreciated. Please don't feel you have to answer all of my questions, if one bit grabs you and you want to comment go ahead, I realise it's a bit of a marathon post.

I've just bought a new house and was hoping to get some advice about gettting an intruder alarm fitted. I've got some advice from a friend in the industry who works for a company that only does commercial stuff, he told me that ideally I want to look for an installer/company that is NACOSS Gold acreditied, due to the security vetting and checks in place to retain that acredittation, unfortunately this leaves me with only 2 companies in my geographical area (I quickly learned that most companies don't want to travel more than a short way for residential work.

I've received 2 quotes, one is almost twice as much as the other, but there are a few points I'll list below that I need to get clarified. Both companies were very polite and helpful with their quotes. One company is a smallish local company that offered all sorts of little benefits, a cheaper quote and cheap annual servicing. The second is an "Independent National" the quote was higher (almost double), but the guy treated me more like an adult, by telling me exactly why and what they would do, what equipment they were going to use, and told me that I could go and check on the equipment myself and satisfy my curiosity and questions I had. I'll refer to the companies as "National" and "Local" when refering to them as I don't want to upset anyone that might be reading the post.

Local - Uses Gardtec

National - Uses (or quoted me for) PowerMax+

I had a GardTec system on my old house and didn't like it much, I found it quite awkward to use. The PowerMax+ stuff looks great, especially with all the integration and expansion capabilities.

1. Which is the better of the 2 systems for my domestic purposes?

Both companies are NACOSS Gold.

2. Am I wrong in letting this be such a major factor in my decision?

Many places online are listing the PowerMax+ as a high end wireless DIY alarm system.

3. Is this really the case, am I opening a whole can of worms even thinking about a DIY system? I've been led to beleive that wireless systems like this for a basic system is well within the capabilites of a relatively technically able person. If I did this I'd have my own engineers codes and would remove the potential "disgruntled employee posting engineer codes to the Internet" scenario.

The PowerMax+ system has a bunch of addons, I'd like the ability to add devices at a later date, but to do this I'd obviously need the engineer codes.

4. Is it very wrong to ask for a unique engineers code to be set (I'm aware that many companies use the same engineers code for the majority of their systems which makes me feel uncomfortable) this way I could add the new devices myself should I wish?

The National company has said I have to call an electrician in to provide a mains spur for the brain to hook into. This further complicates matters for me as I now have to find and pay an electrician, this apparently is due to europe messing with legislation again. Apparently if the security company runs a spur and Bush invades Iraq or there's a major earthquake anywhere in the world, then the security company will be liable (sorry for the sarcasm).

5. Shouldn't I be able to expect the security company to do the whole job?

Annual servicing, again local is almost 40% cheaper than national, is this a bit like an MOT where most testing centres worth their salt can find something to replace and charge you for if they look hard enough?

6. What should I watch out for in the annual service, should I expect to always pay for something on every annual visit?

Apologies for all the questions, but everytime I revisit this it gets a bit more complex.

Any help and advice outside of my questions is very much appreciated.

Regards

Consultant

[Guest Consultant]

Im guessing the "national" is also quite well know for home improvement type products aswell.

Where abouts are you?

Also try www.ssaib.org for installers in your area.

You will almost certainly find the no professional installer will entertain you having the engineer code and be able to fiddle with the system yourself.

Peterborough, Cambridgeshire.

[morph]

Hi All,

Hopefully this is the place to ask my Intruder Alarm questions. Any and all help appreciated. Please don't feel you have to answer all of my questions, if one bit grabs you and you want to comment go ahead, I realise it's a bit of a marathon post.

I've just bought a new house and was hoping to get some advice about gettting an intruder alarm fitted. I've got some advice from a friend in the industry who works for a company that only does commercial stuff, he told me that ideally I want to look for an installer/company that is NACOSS Gold acreditied, due to the security vetting and checks in place to retain that acredittation, unfortunately this leaves me with only 2 companies in my geographical area (I quickly learned that most companies don't want to travel more than a short way for residential work.

NSI Website, there will be more than two companies that cover your area, have a look on there accredited installer list.

I've received 2 quotes, one is almost twice as much as the other, but there are a few points I'll list below that I need to get clarified. Both companies were very polite and helpful with their quotes. One company is a smallish local company that offered all sorts of little benefits, a cheaper quote and cheap annual servicing. The second is an "Independent National" the quote was higher (almost double), but the guy treated me more like an adult, by telling me exactly why and what they would do, what equipment they were going to use, and told me that I could go and check on the equipment myself and satisfy my curiosity and questions I had. I'll refer to the companies as "National" and "Local" when refering to them as I don't want to upset anyone that might be reading the post.

Local - Uses Gardtec

National - Uses (or quoted me for) PowerMax+

I had a GardTec system on my old house and didn't like it much, I found it quite awkward to use. The PowerMax+ stuff looks great, especially with all the integration and expansion capabilities.

1. Which is the better of the 2 systems for my domestic purposes? It depends on the property and a risk assesment being carried out, past expierience would lead me to use the Gardtec equipment.

Both companies are NACOSS Gold.

2. Am I wrong in letting this be such a major factor in my decision? No you are not wrong, but there are lots of equally quallified NSI Silver installers ( generally smaller companies) you could also look at theSSAIB,like the NSI they are also acceptable Inspectorate in line with current ACPO policy for Monitored Security Systems.

Many places online are listing the PowerMax+ as a high end wireless DIY alarm system. it is a decent wireless system, but you have to ignore the sales blurb sometimes there are a lot of equally if not better wireless systems.

3. Is this really the case, am I opening a whole can of worms even thinking about a DIY system? I've been led to beleive that wireless systems like this for a basic system is well within the capabilites of a relatively technically able person. If I did this I'd have my own engineers codes and would remove the potential "disgruntled employee posting engineer codes to the Internet" scenario.

A diy installation can be within the capabillities of a diy installer, however there is no comparison to the levels of equipment and installation that a professional installer can provide.

The PowerMax+ system has a bunch of addons, I'd like the ability to add devices at a later date, but to do this I'd obviously need the engineer codes.

4. Is it very wrong to ask for a unique engineers code to be set (I'm aware that many companies use the same engineers code for the majority of their systems which makes me feel uncomfortable) this way I could add the new devices myself should I wish?

A professional installer would not make you aware of the engineer code while the system is under warranty and service contract, you dont need the code as you pay them to look after the system, there are also insurance implications to consider.

The National company has said I have to call an electrician in to provide a mains spur for the brain to hook into. This further complicates matters for me as I now have to find and pay an electrician, this apparently is due to europe messing with legislation again. Apparently if the security company runs a spur and Bush invades Iraq or there's a major earthquake anywhere in the world, then the security company will be liable (sorry for the sarcasm).

This is to do with "Part P of the Building Regulations" many installers no longer install electrics in houses due to the additional certification burden with regard to electrical installations in domestic premises, however many do and include the cost of the spur within the original installation charge. it pays to shop wisley.

5. Shouldn't I be able to expect the security company to do the whole job?

Yes most companies will do the whole Job.

Annual servicing, again local is almost 40% cheaper than national, is this a bit like an MOT where most testing centres worth their salt can find something to replace and charge you for if they look hard enough?

Overheads are lower for a small company, only the battery should need changing evevry three years, unless you abuse and damage your alarm there should be no hidden costs. Remeber with most moder alarm systems they will tell you exactly what is wrong.

6. What should I watch out for in the annual service, should I expect to always pay for something on every annual visit?

NO as i said a battery every three years would be the most I would expect to pay.

Apologies for all the questions, but everytime I revisit this it gets a bit more complex.

Any help and advice outside of my questions is very much appreciated.

Regards

Consultant

[Guest Consultant]

NSI Website, there will be more than two companies that cover your area, have a look on there accredited installer list.

Thanks for that, but on the NSI website, if I search on Type=Intruder Alarms and Town=Peterborough (NSI Level = All) only 2 companies are returned. Companies in Northampton and other similarly distanced areas have already told me they'll not travel to my area for a quote/install. I'll go and check the SSIAB next.

it is a decent wireless system, but you have to ignore the sales blurb sometimes there are a lot of equally if not better wireless systems.

Can you give me examples so I know what I'm looking at or can create an informed judgement when these guys tell me who they use?

A diy installation can be within the capabillities of a diy installer, however there is no comparison to the levels of equipment and installation that a professional installer can provide.

This goes without saying and I fully agree, obviously the upside is it saves me over

[morph]

Can you give me examples so I know what I'm looking at or can create an informed judgement when these guys tell me who they use?

In No particular order:

Gardtec do a wireless system.

Rokonet.

Scantronic Homelink 75.

Honeywell Galaxy.

Honeywell Domonial.

FM Electronics.

Castle Caretech

Most manufacturers do wireless, but thing I would say with any wireless system the only way to have it installed is professionally.

[mjw]

Hi All,

Hopefully this is the place to ask my Intruder Alarm questions. Any and all help appreciated. Please don't feel you have to answer all of my questions, if one bit grabs you and you want to comment go ahead, I realise it's a bit of a marathon post.

I've just bought a new house and was hoping to get some advice about gettting an intruder alarm fitted. I've got some advice from a friend in the industry who works for a company that only does commercial stuff, he told me that ideally I want to look for an installer/company that is NACOSS Gold acreditied, due to the security vetting and checks in place to retain that acredittation, unfortunately this leaves me with only 2 companies in my geographical area (I quickly learned that most companies don't want to travel more than a short way for residential work.

I've received 2 quotes, one is almost twice as much as the other, but there are a few points I'll list below that I need to get clarified. Both companies were very polite and helpful with their quotes. One company is a smallish local company that offered all sorts of little benefits, a cheaper quote and cheap annual servicing. The second is an "Independent National" the quote was higher (almost double), but the guy treated me more like an adult, by telling me exactly why and what they would do, what equipment they were going to use, and told me that I could go and check on the equipment myself and satisfy my curiosity and questions I had. I'll refer to the companies as "National" and "Local" when refering to them as I don't want to upset anyone that might be reading the post.

Local - Uses Gardtec

National - Uses (or quoted me for) PowerMax+

I had a GardTec system on my old house and didn't like it much, I found it quite awkward to use. The PowerMax+ stuff looks great, especially with all the integration and expansion capabilities.

1. Which is the better of the 2 systems for my domestic purposes?

Both companies are NACOSS Gold.

2. Am I wrong in letting this be such a major factor in my decision?

Many places online are listing the PowerMax+ as a high end wireless DIY alarm system.

3. Is this really the case, am I opening a whole can of worms even thinking about a DIY system? I've been led to beleive that wireless systems like this for a basic system is well within the capabilites of a relatively technically able person. If I did this I'd have my own engineers codes and would remove the potential "disgruntled employee posting engineer codes to the Internet" scenario.

The PowerMax+ system has a bunch of addons, I'd like the ability to add devices at a later date, but to do this I'd obviously need the engineer codes.

4. Is it very wrong to ask for a unique engineers code to be set (I'm aware that many companies use the same engineers code for the majority of their systems which makes me feel uncomfortable) this way I could add the new devices myself should I wish?

The National company has said I have to call an electrician in to provide a mains spur for the brain to hook into. This further complicates matters for me as I now have to find and pay an electrician, this apparently is due to europe messing with legislation again. Apparently if the security company runs a spur and Bush invades Iraq or there's a major earthquake anywhere in the world, then the security company will be liable (sorry for the sarcasm).

5. Shouldn't I be able to expect the security company to do the whole job?

Annual servicing, again local is almost 40% cheaper than national, is this a bit like an MOT where most testing centres worth their salt can find something to replace and charge you for if they look hard enough?

6. What should I watch out for in the annual service, should I expect to always pay for something on every annual visit?

Apologies for all the questions, but everytime I revisit this it gets a bit more complex.

Any help and advice outside of my questions is very much appreciated.

Regards

Consultant

i have to agree dont go down the wireless route...it can be trouble some...as for engineers codes i am a service engineer have been for nearly 12 years now if i suspect a customer to know our code i would/will change it.....and again as a engineer if sone thing is faulty yes of course it will be changed BUT i would never change some thing for the sake of it...its not really the done thing...cant speak for garages though

[whistle]

mmm