Has Part P Made Things Better Or Worse?

[Guest]

This is one of the misconceptions Paul. You are allowed to do the work but you must notify the building control. Even a diyer can do the work but it must be notified.

This is one of the mismisconceptions. Most building control departments won't let you do it unless you provide a certificate and no-one will provide a certificate for you anymore as they know they are quids in whatever happens.

[antinode]

Personally, I think Part P is "A Bad Idea TM". The initial idea, presumably to prevent unsafe electrical work causing injury or death, was a good one. It's implementation was diabolical to say the least and it's introduction certainly has'nt been made aware to the people it concearns the most (DIYers). Coupled with the fact that there are frequent discussions online over what does and does'nt come under Part P further confirms how poorly it has been introduced.

I installed 6 downlighters in my KITCHEN last week, where I had to make a couple of access holes in the BATHROOM above to get new cables in and connect the transformers etc. How the hell is that addition any different from the same installation carried out in a lounge?

It could have been an exellent way to prevent none competant people carrying out work beyond their means, but instead it has a negative impact on people and businesses that were adequately qualified to carry out such work, many of them having to shell out on Part P compliance courses. The fact is that people are still carrying out dangerous electrical work regardless of Part P, and let's face it, what kind of inspector is going to be checking for anything beyond glaringly obvious faults? Obviously not the one that passed off our own home electrical system, where mains cables are supported under the floorboards with 2 inch nails!

[Vince8282]

This is one of the mismisconceptions. Most building control departments won't let you do it unless you provide a certificate and no-one will provide a certificate for you anymore as they know they are quids in whatever happens.

How can you provide a certificate until the work has been done and if you are not qualified to make out a required certificate why in the approved document P does it give the information for people who are not qualified to make out the certificate to get the buiding control to take responsibility to get the work checked and certified and to my great surprise it says NOT at the customers expense.

Under Certification of Notifiable work: c Where installers are not qualified to complete BS7671 completion certificates. Paragraphs 1.24 to 1.26 on page 11 or 12 of this years ie 2006 edition of the approved document P which came into force according to it's front cover on 6th of April 2006.

So if the work is done in an emergency, and who decides what an emergency is?, it appears that a person who does the work and is not qualified to certify the work, then the building control MUST take the responsibility to get the work certified and not at the customers expense. It says the building control may do the work itself or get someone in to do it.

I think this is another scam to confuse everyone and the most important people of all THE CUSTOMERS haven't got a clue what part P is and as usual they will be the last to find out.

[Guest]

I see what you're saying, but it doesn't work like that unfortunately.

Some of the building control departments are putting their hands up and saying "yes, we are aware of what part p says. However, we don't have anyone in this department that can provide certification on electrical works and we cannot get someone in to do it as a: it costs us more to get someone in than we charge you and\or b: anyone we get in won't certify it as they are under strict uinstructions from their inspectorate to not certify other peoples work for the purposes of part p certification".

I have been caught out by this a couple of times after starting jobs on the understanding that the building control people will certify the job for me only to be told that they won't.

[Vince8282]

You said it Stu " IT doesn't work like that".

Lets face it it just doesn't work. The government have cocked up because they don't know what they are doing, the building control can't cope because they have been dumped upon by the government, Approved document P is open to interpretation and is being ignored by the building control, cowboys and electricians. The people who are trying to make it work are the inspectorates who are in it for the money and want to hide behind the illusion that they have the customers interests at heart and the firms and electricians who have forked out their money to comply with all the part P requirements.(Not to mention update to part L)

The customers, because of the lack of publicity, just think that the proper sparkies are just trying to rip them off. As a result the cowboys move in at much lower prices(but not always) and instruct the customers to say it was done before part P applied. The customers think that they are saving vast amounts of money and so go along with this. When the house sellers packs start being enforced the properties that have never had an inspection since they were installed are going to fail the inspections costing the poor customers more of their hard earned over taxed income. Let me just correct myself: The government know exactly what they are doing

Has Pat P Made things better or worse? For the tax man Better for tax payers Worse but as with all things it is not as clear cut as this. Time will tell if it will prove good for the trade the cowboys and the people who request the work.

[Adi]

The government - couldnt organise a few bevvies in a brewery.

[Guest RICHL]

The government - couldnt organise a few bevvies in a brewery.

QFA, all this **** comes from two shags prescott's office, you'd think he'd have better things to do.

[Vince8282]

QFA, all this **** comes from two shags prescott's office, you'd think he'd have better things to do.

This is exactly what they ie the government want you to think.

Why do you think they have not advertised it with any conviction? Why did they make subtle changes to the document this year and still tell no one?

Just a few suggestions:

To make jobs for inspectorates to make money which in turn will make more taxes available from their employees.

To generate more money from electrical firms and/or electricians in order to become compliant.

To stitch up the local building control with extra expenses for those jobs that they become responsible for under this years document which in turn is passed on to , you guest it, the local tax payers.

To totally get on the nerves of older electricians who thought that they were certified as competent after their craft apprenticeships and college training and work experiences so they would leave their trade or retire which in turn will allow the cheaper payed workers from the European community to fill the vacuum left which in turn will allow the business owners to cut their wage bills overall but the tax man has more people to take tax from.