Installation Standards

[Guest]

I thought he meant the ex //.National Installer.// tea boy?

[arfur mo]

Problem is Colin most installations will comply with Grade 1.

Personally I think the minimum anyone installing as his trade should be installing to a minimum of 2x, that includes the paperwork that goes with it

Pete

hi peter, you are absolutely right imo. always aim to raise the bar and look down, not just reach it by looking up and stretching sometimes.

at ifsec today, while chatting (i think his name was Steve from the NSI but i can't find his card), to NSI rep (really excellent guy) he stunned me by saying "on grade 1 & 2 systems under En regs, the pir needs not to be tampered, and only the cable needs to be tampered on grade 2 but the tamper contact need not be connected" and showed me the chart in confirmation to my draw dropping amazement.

i point out this is not any of the NSI's or SSAIB's idea or doing, and is a lower spec than our BS.4737 regs, which have been refined for the better and served us well over the years. why fix whats not broke? but thats the EU for us. imo usuall fair, as barmy as baking bullets.

strangely if the pir has a swivel bracket again it only needs a tamper for grades 3 & 4. (against being twisted away frrom intended direction), which is a far lesser standard than 'ours'.

i think on this example, all decent companies will tend to ignore Grade 1 and exceed Grade 2 of En regs by default, and from what i learnt today it should be three grades only. i think use 3 for most as the detectors are not that much more in cost, and 4 for anything higher risk, if you don't you may get accused of bad advice, and knock up your insurrance policy for six.

even if the clients were fully aware of the grades, would they not be confused as to where to apply them for the different level of 'cut offs', as i know i am regarding G2 or G3 and so deciding safely.

Steve suggested to cover ourselves inserting a recommendation the specification is agreed with the insurrer as to the correct grading level, that way the responsibility is on the client and insurers, prudent advice, it seemed to me as was everthing else he said, even i could not anything to over with him - amazing, i must be losing my touch!

regs

alan

[j.paul]

at ifsec today, while chatting (i think his name was Steve from the NSI but i can't find his card), to NSI rep (really excellent guy) he stunned me by saying "on grade 1 & 2 systems under En regs, the pir needs not to be tampered, and only the cable needs to be tampered on grade 2 but the tamper contact need not be connected" and showed me the chart in confirmation to my draw dropping amazement.

I think he's wrong or you have miss understood what he has said, PIR's need to tampered on grade 2,3 and 4 systems and its optional on grade 1

[morph]

I think he's wrong or you have miss understood what he has said, PIR's need to tampered on grade 2,3 and 4 systems and its optional on grade 1

Surely Not!!!!

[arfur mo]

I think he's wrong or you have miss understood what he has said, PIR's need to tampered on grade 2,3 and 4 systems and its optional on grade 1

hi mate, i hope i was dreaming and misunderstood, i did ask several times at it was such a 'shock' to the system even on G1. seemed to make al those 'cheap sparky' installs legit

he had a chart which he pointed to as confirmation, no fibs actually was what he said and wa the 1st stand i was on so not 'snow blinded' at that time. pity i could not get the regs at the show i got to busy gassing (and no way was i there from 10 - 17:30 couple of large guys threw me out )

here is a smile for a great bit of irony -:

Steve (NSI rep) was involved with another display who were fitting a panel and some bits and bobs some guy up steps panicling, when i walked up. so we went to the 'skills and training' boothe (that i thought was the 1st irony). its got up signs saying info on DT and En regs which had caught my eye initially. while we were chatting a guy from the other stand comes over and says in a panic 'they can not clear a zone tamper' so i offered to help as you do "it's a menvier panel, we need someone who knows a menvier panel" (it was like the scene from 'Ants' we are lost - we are in ifsec dough!) and then before i could reply he disapeared.

manner from heaven, so i chimmed in tongue in cheek "i'd be happy to help your guy Steve, but i'm note registered and so can't subby for you on commissioning a system as restricted buy NSi code of conduct' taken in fun as he could see that side of it.

great fun, of all the people to walk up when this hapenned, made my day straight off. i don't know if they got it going but i assume the menvier stand would sort it in seconds anyway.

regs

alan

[j.paul]

hi mate, i hope i was dreaming and misunderstood, i did ask several times at it was such a 'shock' to the system even on G1. seemed to make al those 'cheap sparky' installs legit

he had a chart which he pointed to as confirmation, no fibs actually was what he said and wa the 1st stand i was on so not 'snow blinded' at that time. pity i could not get the regs at the show i got to busy gassing (and no way was i there from 10 - 17:30 couple of large guys threw me out )

regs

alan

As this post seems to have moved again

EN Charts

[IPAlarms]

alarmgard: It's interesting that you want to know what the general public think - nobody else in the industry seems to care. All the industry is interested in is standards - no matter what the cost to the end user.

I had to laugh at the closing paragraph from the editor in PSI this month, where he advises that "end users are opting for the cheap option". The paragraph closes where he advises that the insurers, inspectorates and police should "ensure that the security industry isn't once again driven down the wrong road by the incompetence of others".

By "others" - does he mean end users ?

It is my belief that the security industry is going to shoot itself in the foot with all it's red tape. The costs of monitoring just keep rising for the end user and for what ? - response from a police force that would much rather be doing other things ?