House With Commercial Alarm & Redcare Gsm System

[Guest logical001]

Hi,

I've just bought a house which basically has a commercial Alarm system installed.

The details are a Menvier 900+ Panel, Dual path Blu-Stu with GSM Redcare (deactivated). PIR's are all dual Tec or Quad technology (DTI standard). Also it has a couple of Keypads one with a Keyfob reader

As far as I know this system was installed as the owner had a home business but needed a commercial system owing to the expensive equipment he had etc.

Only problem is that decorating means the PIR's etc are going to be removed whilst wall skimming takes place and thus the cables will need to be replaced which I can do. (Electrical Engineer).

I was wondering however what my options are in terms of turning the monitoring on ( Alarm is not a problem as I have the manuals from the web). I assume RedCare home or the commercial Redcare GSM ( I also have a home business) would allows me to do this??

Also what should I expect to pay for RedCare bearing in mind the equipment cost seems to be negated? Would I also need to get someone to check it to meet insurance requirements etc / sign off.

Would like to know my options

Many thanks

Jonathan

[antinode]

Hi,

I've just bought a house which basically has a commercial Alarm system installed.

The details are a Menvier 900+ Panel, Dual path Blu-Stu with GSM Redcare (deactivated). PIR's are all dual Tec or Quad technology (DTI standard). Also it has a couple of Keypads one with a Keyfob reader

As far as I know this system was installed as the owner had a home business but needed a commercial system owing to the expensive equipment he had etc.

Only problem is that decorating means the PIR's etc are going to be removed whilst wall skimming takes place and thus the cables will need to be replaced which I can do. (Electrical Engineer).

I was wondering however what my options are in terms of turning the monitoring on ( Alarm is not a problem as I have the manuals from the web). I assume RedCare home or the commercial Redcare GSM ( I also have a home business) would allows me to do this??

Also what should I expect to pay for RedCare bearing in mind the equipment cost seems to be negated? Would I also need to get someone to check it to meet insurance requirements etc / sign off.

Would like to know my options

Many thanks

Jonathan

Hi,

A couple of points here. It may be the the case that as the system was previously a monitored one, the system may be programmed for "engineer reset" on tamper, meaning that when you take the covers off any PIRs, they will trigger a tamper alarm and you will be unable to reset the system. If the system was decomissioned properly, this should not be the case, but I just thought I'd warn you.

With regards to re-instating the signalling for police response, as you are probably aware, you cannot do this yourself. You will need to contact an approved company (NSI or SSAIB) to quote for an audit and takeover of the system. It's probable that the system presently in place does not comply with recent changes in the standards for intruder alarms. If the URN for the signalling has been cancelled your property will need to have a risk assesment carried out to ascertain the grade of system that needs to be fitted. Basially, a Grade 1 system would be a very basic bells only domestic property with no insurance requirement for an alarm, Grade 4 being a bank or gold bullion store etc, with most other systems falling into either Grade 2 or 3. The new company will explain all of this to you. You should get as many quotes as you can, then when you have all the details, we can help you.

Redcare has never been a cheap service, and Redcare GSM is particularly expensive to the point where most people only opt for it if it is specified by the insurer, or if they have the money for it. Prices will differ between companies. The Dualcom Plus is a cheaper (but certainly not worse) option if you wish to retain dual path signalling, it all depends on the company taking over the system.

[breff]

And to add to the above, if the URN has been cancelled you may need a new panel to bring it up to EN regs.

[Guest logical001]

Hi,

A couple of points here. It may be the the case that as the system was previously a monitored one, the system may be programmed for "engineer reset" on tamper, meaning that when you take the covers off any PIRs, they will trigger a tamper alarm and you will be unable to reset the system. If the system was decomissioned properly, this should not be the case, but I just thought I'd warn you.

With regards to re-instating the signalling for police response, as you are probably aware, you cannot do this yourself. You will need to contact an approved company (NSI or SSAIB) to quote for an audit and takeover of the system. It's probable that the system presently in place does not comply with recent changes in the standards for intruder alarms. If the URN for the signalling has been cancelled your property will need to have a risk assesment carried out to ascertain the grade of system that needs to be fitted. Basially, a Grade 1 system would be a very basic bells only domestic property with no insurance requirement for an alarm, Grade 4 being a bank or gold bullion store etc, with most other systems falling into either Grade 2 or 3. The new company will explain all of this to you. You should get as many quotes as you can, then when you have all the details, we can help you.

Redcare has never been a cheap service, and Redcare GSM is particularly expensive to the point where most people only opt for it if it is specified by the insurer, or if they have the money for it. Prices will differ between companies. The Dualcom Plus is a cheaper (but certainly not worse) option if you wish to retain dual path signalling, it all depends on the company taking over the system.

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.

The alarm system was returned to factory default and I have the engineers code and installation manual as well as the user one. Having very quickly powered up the panel last night on battery, it passes the various self-checks as do the 'Disco' PIR's. The Alarm is up to 2004 spec as this was required by the insurance company. Last service on the panel was in November 2005.

Alarm setting was done by prox keys which as I understand is in line with commercial requirements.

The Redcare GSM unit (2003 install date) also powers up but as to what state this was left in is anyones guess. From reading round on the web, it is advised these shoud be decomissioned correctly.

On the assumption the system is Ok and Redcare units are serviceable, what is the price difference between Redcare and Dualcom Plus in my situation. I assume I would be Grade 3 being a home business?

From looking at older posts it seems to be anything from 25 to 40 a month for Redcare GSM. Do they charge less for a GSM home version (if the plan exists) with inherited hardware.

Also how much does Dual Com Plus work out at as a going rate?

I know I will require a site survey whatever but it would be handy to have a guideline.

In the mean time I will try and get hold of an Alarm company. I'm in south Birmingham if anyone on here is local.

Thanks

Jonathan

[antinode]

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.

The alarm system was returned to factory default and I have the engineers code and installation manual as well as the user one. Having very quickly powered up the panel last night on battery, it passes the various self-checks as do the 'Disco' PIR's. The Alarm is up to 2004 spec as this was required by the insurance company. Last service on the panel was in November 2005.

Alarm setting was done by prox keys which as I understand is in line with commercial requirements.

The Redcare GSM unit (2003 install date) also powers up but as to what state this was left in is anyones guess. From reading round on the web, it is advised these shoud be decomissioned correctly.

On the assumption the system is Ok and Redcare units are serviceable, what is the price difference between Redcare and Dualcom Plus in my situation. I assume I would be Grade 3 being a home business?

From looking at older posts it seems to be anything from 25 to 40 a month for Redcare GSM. Do they charge less for a GSM home version (if the plan exists) with inherited hardware.

Also how much does Dual Com Plus work out at as a going rate?

I know I will require a site survey whatever but it would be handy to have a guideline.

In the mean time I will try and get hold of an Alarm company. I'm in south Birmingham if anyone on here is local.

Thanks

Jonathan

New standards came into effect in October 2005, so the system as it stands does not comply. Everything depends on what the incoming installer grades your property at really. This depends on a number of things, such as approximate value of goods onsite, ease of entry, past break ins etc. When the installers come to quote, it's best to give as detailed answers to their questions as you can.

There are a few installers here from that area, and I'm sure someone will chime in if they read this thread.

[chris j]

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.

The alarm system was returned to factory default and I have the engineers code and installation manual as well as the user one. Having very quickly powered up the panel last night on battery, it passes the various self-checks as do the 'Disco' PIR's. The Alarm is up to 2004 spec as this was required by the insurance company. Last service on the panel was in November 2005.

Alarm setting was done by prox keys which as I understand is in line with commercial requirements.

The Redcare GSM unit (2003 install date) also powers up but as to what state this was left in is anyones guess. From reading round on the web, it is advised these shoud be decomissioned correctly.

On the assumption the system is Ok and Redcare units are serviceable, what is the price difference between Redcare and Dualcom Plus in my situation. I assume I would be Grade 3 being a home business?

From looking at older posts it seems to be anything from 25 to 40 a month for Redcare GSM. Do they charge less for a GSM home version (if the plan exists) with inherited hardware.

Also how much does Dual Com Plus work out at as a going rate?

I know I will require a site survey whatever but it would be handy to have a guideline.

In the mean time I will try and get hold of an Alarm company. I'm in south Birmingham if anyone on here is local.

Thanks

Jonathan

We are based not to far from you, if you PM me your phone number i will get the office to give you a call on monday, but just out of interest who installed the system? It could be one of our systems in this area.

[mjw]

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.

The alarm system was returned to factory default and I have the engineers code and installation manual as well as the user one. Having very quickly powered up the panel last night on battery, it passes the various self-checks as do the 'Disco' PIR's. The Alarm is up to 2004 spec as this was required by the insurance company. Last service on the panel was in November 2005.

Alarm setting was done by prox keys which as I understand is in line with commercial requirements.

The Redcare GSM unit (2003 install date) also powers up but as to what state this was left in is anyones guess. From reading round on the web, it is advised these shoud be decomissioned correctly.

On the assumption the system is Ok and Redcare units are serviceable, what is the price difference between Redcare and Dualcom Plus in my situation. I assume I would be Grade 3 being a home business?

From looking at older posts it seems to be anything from 25 to 40 a month for Redcare GSM. Do they charge less for a GSM home version (if the plan exists) with inherited hardware.

Also how much does Dual Com Plus work out at as a going rate?

I know I will require a site survey whatever but it would be handy to have a guideline.

In the mean time I will try and get hold of an Alarm company. I'm in south Birmingham if anyone on here is local.

Thanks

Jonathan

All the info you have been given is correct,although you could keep your exsisting system and install a speech dialler onto your system if you didnt want police response(dont know if they respond all the time now...they say they do but????????)

[Guest]

...although you could keep your exsisting system and install a speech dialler onto your system if you didnt want police response...

[Guest]

In the mean time I will try and get hold of an Alarm company. I'm in south Birmingham if anyone on here is local.

so whats wrong with the firm that installed it???