Guest Deryck Tintagel Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 I know that the best connection may be a direct connection back to the CU using a dedicated MCB for the alarm, second best is a spur from a socket ring. What is the opinion of taking a supply from the lighting circuit? I have seen it done on the odd occasion but I didn't think that it's the best. What are the opinions of the professionals?
morph Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 Any electrical work must be carried out by a person with the neccessary skills and be competent to do so, it must be carried out in accordance with "BS 7671:2001 IEE Wiring Regulations 16th edition" and "The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989". To comply with the current British Standard 4737 the system needs to be fed from a 3amp unswitched fused spur. Ideally this should be fed directly from the main fuse board. If this is not possible we would normally use a local ring main circuit and using the appropriate size cable and materials. We would not use the lighting circuit( yes people do but it is not good practice) If you are in andy doubt at all you should employ an electrician to do this work for you. REMEMBER that the last person to work on the installation is legally responsible for it. So if you sell your house and the new owner,a vistor or even a member get a shock or worse because of the work you did. YOU WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE IN THE EYES OF THE LAW and most importantly your insurance would be null and void. Colin.
dinefwr Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 I agree with Colin and you should also get a minor work certificate!
Guest oldtimer Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 I also agree with Colin I would also add that the reason why some alarms are wired into a light circuit is that the person installing it purely as a cost cutting measure also even if you have a unswitched spur the last thing you do is connect on to a lighting circuit as this could cause false alarms via electrical interferance ie switching lights on/off
Guest Deryck Tintagel Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 the last thing you do is connect on to a lighting circuit as this could cause false alarms via electrical interferance ie switching lights on/off I would have thought that the lighting circuit is a cleaner supply than the socket ring - no fridges / freezers / heavy loads turning on and off - assuming that the kitchenis on the same ring
morph Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 Derek, Theres a right and wrong way of doing things, using a lighting circuit falls into the latter. I dont know what you do for a living but i dare say there are rules and regulations regarding what you do and how you do it. Written by people outwith your control. Do you follow there instructions, course you do. The rules governing alarms and electrics are written by a committee of interested parties and passed on for comment to our industry and then changed or implemented accordingly. However change simply isn't a case of saying i dont agree with it, the technical issues are explored and debated to great length before any change or new rule is agreeded. If you wish to find out more about the electrical rules governing this type of work then buy a copy of the 16th edition from the BSI. The fact that you are still asking about the lighting circuit, would say to me to get an electrician in as the position of the spur is clearly not straight forward and he will have years of expierience at this sort of thing . Colin.
Guest Deryck Tintagel Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 Colin No, I am not using the lighting circuit for the mains supply. The original was a query regarding the use of it having seen it done by "professional" alarm installers and I was looking at other's opinions. My last comment was simply a response to Oldtimer regarding the possibility of transients on the mains and false alarms. Yes, there was a reason for asking as I have a supply to pick up for an installation and both the ring and lighting circuits are available. Yes, the lighting is easier but the ring is better and a little more work but not a problem. A feed from the CU is nigh on impossible without major work - ie. floors up, new CU, etc. I have a copy of BS4737 but haven't read it recently (That's a job for tonight) - probably tells me something. 16th Edition is probably worthh the read. As regards getting an electrician there's no need. My father was electrical manager of a contracting company and has told me that on domestic installations I do a better job than time served sparks and having seen some jobs "professionals" have done, even I pick holes in them! When in doubt ask? Hence I am here. Electronics engineer 13years
morph Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 As regards getting an electrician there's no need. My father was electrical manager of a contracting company and has told me that on domestic installations I do a better job than time served sparks and having seen some jobs "professionals" have done, even I pick holes in them! Enough Said
Guest pto Posted January 16, 2004 Posted January 16, 2004 Any electrical work must be carried out by a person with the neccessary skills and be competent to do so, it must be carried out in accordance with "BS 7671:2001 IEE Wiring Regulations 16th edition" and "The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989". Hi, I can't see anywhere in the 16th edition of the electricity at work regulations 1989 that would disallow this practice. The lighting circuit is governed by a 5 or 6A fuse, an alarm panel takes minimal current (several mA) and personally I would rather have somebody take power from a ceiling rose where there are adequate terminals than chop into my ring main and put in a old joint box. In my opinion, whether you care or not, alarm panels (or the main panel - whatever you wish to refer it by) should be fitted well out of the way, ideally the loft and have a key panel by the door. This would be good as there are plenty of options up there - not to mention plenty of ceiling roses Ok maybe not a old joint box - but you know what I'm getting at. Jack
black knight Posted January 16, 2004 Posted January 16, 2004 the only problems i have with using a ceiling rose connection as opposed to ring main are: 1) if a lamp blows it may take out a MCB (which most modern electrical systems are protected by) , i have had this happen on systems before and owner has,nt realised alarm goes onto battery etc etc. 2) i always think of the mains connection as an spur and a spur should come off the ring main not the lighting circiut i,m not saying i hav,nt taken power from a ceiling rose or lighting circiut in my time - i have!! , all i.m saying is that "in my opinion" it is better practice where possible to take it from a ring main, preferrably a convenient socket. usually in houses i,ve found that the supply to upstairs immersion heater is useful (as long as it is,nt switched from elsewhere paul THE BLACK KNIGHT "Any comments / opinions posted are my opinion only and do not represent those of my employer or Company."
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