Insulted

[superpiper]

Do the 'ahem' pro's get insulted when Joe public tries to save money and install his/her own system?

I'm in the process of installing a professional system myself.

I am finding it very intresting and satisfying.

However, Most of the principles are not to difficult to understand once you have a bit of literiture or good advice. I dont think i could do it as good as you guys, but it will be better than a cowboy installation.

For me, professionalls are there for when i can't or don't want to do the work myself.

Take plastering, i'm useless at it and call a tradesman everytime. However, i can and do service my car.

You guys seem to me to be irritated by us DIY'ers

Just a thought.

[j.paul]

Do the 'ahem' pro's get insulted when Joe public tries to save money and install his/her own system?

I'm in the process of installing a professional system myself.

I am finding it very intresting and satisfying.

However, Most of the principles are not to difficult to understand once you have a bit of literiture or good advice. I dont think i could do it as good as you guys, but it will be better than a cowboy installation.

For me, professionalls are there for when i can't or don't want to do the work myself.

Take plastering, i'm useless at it and call a tradesman everytime. However, i can and do service my car.

You guys seem to me to be irritated by us DIY'ers

Just a thought.

Hi mate, can I ask what you do for a living

[Guest rjbsec]

You are right, some here do appear to get offended by DIYer's - at least that's what I've always thought from some of the replies!

Of course some people start to DIY and then come here and ask the most basic of questions that clearly show they are ill-equipped to carry out the work; someone makes a sarcastic comment and then everyone gets upset!

If you can do it then fine go ahead and do it, however there will be certain things that you cannot do - for example you cannot get a police response directly from your system as a DIYer. You also may not know when you are doing things incorrectly, against regulations or not using the best equipment/design for the purpose.

If you do the job properly but just need a bit of sensible guidance there anr many here to help, if you ask stupid questions you'll probably get stupid answers - no one is paid or under obligation to help you so those who are polite and appreciative get the best result.

[Guest]

Do the 'ahem' pro's get insulted when Joe public tries to save money and install his/her own system?

it all depends on their attuide

I'm in the process of installing a professional system myself.

Its not really a professional install unless its installed, certified & documented correctly

However, Most of the principles are not to difficult to understand once you have a bit of literiture or good advice.

Even with a manual for every component of the install, most diyers are asking how to wire up every single item, then tells us is so easy

I dont think i could do it as good as you guys, but it will be better than a cowboy installation.

That

[superpiper]

it all depends on their attuide

Its not really a professional install unless its installed, certified & documented correctly

***I said profesional system not a proffesional installation.***

Even with a manual for every component of the install, most diyers are asking how to wire up every single item, then tells us is so easy

***Er, no, We DIY'ers look to you guys for assurance. (my system has no manual)***

That’s the sort of thing which does irritate me no you can’t do the work to my standard because I’ am time served & qualified to do the work I’ am employed too, as for cowboys if you went to member of NSAI is would not have been an issue? Again your objection was you where not prepared to pay for the quotes you had??

***Its a domestic alarm, not a death star defence system, and I live in a civilised area, not brixton.***

To the requirements of the manufacturer?

***The Installation leaflet indicates no requirements but refers to EN..... or ISo 199***

You personally? Not really, the one’s which nag for manuals & then abuse everybody or imply were here to rob everybody because they don’t have the engineering code ect............

***This i don't get, and i think you guys are twisted on.

You.(pro) install (my) system for.........ME!

yet you keep a vital piece of info from me.

The engineering codes are for the owner, and the user codes are for the user.

In situations such as the same owner/user (me) then its Thier code.

If you want to disengage all responsibillity for the installation after handing (me) the code, then so be it. but its my choice.

And this code sillyness it is the primary reason why i chose to install my own system.***

for the record,

I am a professional design engineer,

Involved in the design/checking and approval of stress sensitive engineering systems being fit for purpose.

I've spent 8 years in 3rd level education and regularly attend weekly training courses to stay in touch with my profesion.

I have been training to do this job for the last 10 years and spent 4 years as a boy in an apprentiship.

I have a direct responcibility for the safety and well-being of personel using the equipment i and others design.

[secboy]

for the record,

I am a professional design engineer,

Involved in the checking and approval of stress sensitive systems being fit for purpose.

A bit like this forem then ?????????????.

[Guest]

To the requirements of the manufacturer?

***The Installation leaflet indicates no requirements but refers to EN..... or ISo 199***

Your motor car was the subject

You.(pro) install (my) system for.........ME!

yet you keep a vital piece of info from me.

err no, we provide you with an intruder alarm to the requirements of your insurer subject to a maintenance contract, no contract no install ect...........

[Guest rjbsec]

for the record,

I am a professional design engineer,

Involved in the design/checking and approval of stress sensitive engineering systems being fit for purpose.

I've spent 8 years in 3rd level education and regularly attend weekly training courses to stay in touch with my profesion.

I have been training to do this job for the last 10 years and spent 4 years as a boy in an apprentiship.

I have a direct responcibility for the safety and well-being of personel using the equipment i and others design.

Are we supposed to be impressed?

[superpiper]

Your motor car was the subject

err no, we provide you with an intruder alarm to the requirements of your insurer subject to a maintenance contract, no contract no install ect...........

That makes damn good sense and i totally agree with it.

In that case, i can fully understand why the engineering codes are not given.

But i am not claiming the 5% discount on the insurance (incase i forget to asm the system on the one day i do get burgled)

Nor does my insurance demand an alarm.

Are we supposed to be impressed?

Not by my spelling.

I was wondering why the question,

but i thought i could demonstrate that i to am a proffesional and have trained long and hard to do my job.

....Just like you guys

(Why did you ask the question)?

[Guest Jeffw]

I've read many views on manuals etc., and wasn't going to get involved with these type of posts as basically any person with a bit of sense can aquire 1000's of them fairly simply.

But in defense of the installers, heres a scenario.

I write a program for a user, create the help file and show them how to login to the system and change the codes etc., "which is what they paid for"

However, that said an done, "NOW" the user asks can I have all the software and programming manuals you used to create the program?....Ermm NO!!! go buy them youselves for many many 1000's - I used them to create the system for you!!

I know its somewhat off track, but possibly food for thought - I don't think its unfair that some installers hold onto the manuals (installtion) for numerous reasons.

1) Customer Altering the setup and screwing up all the workings etc

2) Security, manuals being given willy nilly, could or may compromise the systems security.

3 ) plus a few more...

Its an argumentive subject, I personally feal NO they should not be given out for no 2 above solely - and any end user with sense should see this, but then its a a catch 22 - I paid for it I should have it, well if they feel like that and have paid for it - yes they should have it or source it for themselves.

Its a no win argument! BUT from a commmercial aspect (commerical installs) NOWAY in hell should manuals be given out.

I've just had an intersting talk with my Loss adjuster friend last week and basically from their point of view, if a professional or a diy'er installs the alarm it makes no difference whatso ever to them or to your insurance quote! If its an monitored system (only approved installers can do this) then your insurance may drop slightly, but NOT much, the key area he looks at is the vunerablity to the property.

Window, Doors locks conforming to BS standards (read your documents carefully, I did catch this on mine, window locks must conform - which they do, so) but to my friend, 80% of protection IS from securing the property using old fashion methods!! Alarms (bell onlys etc) account for only 20% of things they look at in a claim, and when they do, if they feel the theft is possibly fraudlent, then they'll goto town on your alarm.

So diy'er or Pro on a bells only, doesn't make a difference! difference is made in Commerical and monitored systems.

Jeff