Nova-Security Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 What if....................One of you guys install an alarm in my house. I ask for the Eng.Codes and Inst manual, You refuse. I object, but let the mater drop. 12 months later, i am unhappy with your service (maybe poor reaction to an alarm) Question: 1 How much do you charge to give the Eng code to another Company? Never give out, sackable ofence if a engineer did it 2 How much do you charge to hand over the codes to my service company if i have just bought the house with the alarm already installed? Service charge for somebody to come out and change the code 3. What would be your responce if i refused to pay for an alarm installation without the Eng code?? As you have signed our terms and conditions at the point of order, see you in court 4. Would you install an alarm if i insisted you use my own Eng code? Just as long as your insurance company approved it in writing, which they wouldnt as you are not a professional company Just thinking aloud......................................... www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name.
bellman Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 What if....................One of you guys install an alarm in my house. I ask for the Eng.Codes and Inst manual, You refuse. I object, but let the mater drop. 12 months later, i am unhappy with your service (maybe poor reaction to an alarm) Question: 1 How much do you charge to give the Eng code to another Company? Nothing, I wouldn't give my eng code to anybody, I'll attend for a small charge and default it to one you can give to the incomming maintenance co. 2 How much do you charge to hand over the codes to my service company if i have just bought the house with the alarm already installed? As above, or the incoming maintainer can default the panel to the factory codes. 3. What would be your responce if i refused to pay for an alarm installation without the Eng code?? Simple, I wouldn't fit it for several reasons including legal liability. 4. Would you install an alarm if i insisted you use my own Eng code?Just thinking aloud......................................... Again not if I was contracted to maintain it. I'll give you a senario, I install the alarm with your code installed, you decide to change the programming to allow acess via a different route, 2 days later you get burgled and the alarm doesn't activate, due to a programming error you have made whilst trying to alter the entry route, your insurance co try to sue me for effacy (non performance). For this reason i'd refuse to install since I couldn't say catagorically that the system would continue to perform correctly. You say you service your own car, but can you reset the service indicator lights and interrogate the diagnostic computer? does the manufacturer provide details of how to do that? Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer.
Guest Jeffw Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 So is fine to say restrict a 3rd party from using software over a network, but to restrict them from say a adding an expander to the burglar alarm controls is wrong? I'd call that a double standard. Like I said above this is an no win argument! installers this side of the fence, other that! I stand by my own views though that manuals should not be given out (and I'm not an installer just a diy'er but its my view and I'm entitled to that), as Bellmans scenario above I think really brings it home why. 20 odd years back I used to work Trade (won't explain what) but when you see customers constantly by working in their homes - man it really sinks in over time, just how incapable most of them are - not all I'll admit that, but a heck of alot, and its possibly the incapable ones to shave a few quid are the ones messing about with Fused Spurs, CU boxes etc., ohhh cold shiver!! I was digesting the horry stories on this forum a few days back and god it brought back a lot of memories! Right away to crack a few beers and put my feet up, its been a long day. Peace.
bellman Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 Right away to crack a few beers and put my feet up, its been a long day.Peace. Ditto, halfway down a bottle of finest sherry already, Enjoy Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer.
Nova-Security Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 So is fine to say restrict a 3rd party from using software over a network, but to restrict them from say a adding an expander to the burglar alarm controls is wrong? Which protects the www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name.
bellman Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 My Gran use to drink sherry..... Obviously a woman of good taste then. It's much maligned but quite enjoyable (especially half pint at a time) Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer.
Guest Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 Sorry but i had to reply to this. Question: 1 How much do you charge to give the Eng code to another Company? We dont, we dont give them out full stop. 2 How much do you charge to hand over the codes to my service company if i have just bought the house with the alarm already installed? Read above. 3. What would be your responce if i refused to pay for an alarm installation without the Eng code?? You have signed our terms and conditions, got a good lawyer? 4. Would you install an alarm if i insisted you use my own Eng code? When i stop laughing so much i`ll reply to the latter properly. There are rules and regulations set in stone. This is to protect you as much as the installer. These rules also enable the systems to be given a "police" responce, and as such shold be adhered to at all times. You mess with a system because you got hold of a manual or a code and make a mistake in the programing it may not even signal. Or it may signal but at the incorrect time, how about this senario. you mess with system and the PA dosent go to ARC. Theres you wife/children/parents delete as necc, expecting a police car asap, WRONG, THERE IS NO RESPONCE. Think about that, then think why we do our jobs and endure the documentation. Might sound silly to you but wat we do actually saves lives in certain circumstances. Could you or would you want to sign off a Fire detection system, i know you would not know where to start. Yet you think an alarm panel is easy to circumnavigate. Anyway, just a quick addition to what has been rather eloquently put previously. Yours a Trained locksmith, fire , alarm, cctv and access control person.
amateurandy Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 Having read so many comments from DIY installers I have come to this conclusion.There are 3 kinds of DIY alarm installers: 1 Hard working, honest guys who would find it difficult to afford a professional installation 2 Retired guys with lots of time and the need for an alarm and wanting to fill some spare time 3 Tight fisted, arrogant gits. Which one are you?....... Personally I think I'm a bit of both 1 and 2. Looking at this and other similar threads I find it very disappointing the number of "professionals" who jump to the conclusion of 3 with little or no evidence and then respond with arrogance and vitriol. We know who you are (and you ought to know who you are) and you do yourself no favours. On the other hand the majority are extremely helpful and communicative. PS I'm sure there are other options, e.g. 4. Just don't know and are trying to understand.
Guest G.J.M Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 Ditto, halfway down a bottle of finest sherry already, Enjoy Regards Bellman at 7.30 pm the fact that your drinking sherry is bad enough
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