See You Tomorrow.

[Smoke Screen]

matt and trevor are very informative (but matt is not too clever with the crowd control pistol - so stand clear )

Bah, it took me ages to sort out that misoperation.

Sigh, things were going so well till them

Again on a serious note, many thanks to the attendees.

A O'Flannigan, hope you made it home OK (that must have been some train journey).

Things that we have learnt from the excercise and will be implemented for future courses are:

- Not to oversubscribe. From this point on, there will be a numbers cap on the course.

- Some "hands-on" kits would not go amiss.

- Do not let me loose with the Public Order Training Gun when the gas canister has been emptied. The clear up operation is embarrassing and lengthy.

We have sorted one installation already with an attending company and our intention as previously stated is to make these excercises mutually beneficial. Look forward to working with you all.

Best regards and thanks,

Matt

[Adi]

matt and trevor are very informative

Matt, whats happened to Ady, cant he hack it.

[Guest]

the secondary or comformation pir is not indicated, so if faulty and in open circuit full time, it could give an imediate activation if the intuder alarm is tripped say on a maintenance,

The thing is though, if you alerted people to the fact that the alarm contact was open circuit it would basicall ybe a chime function, and chime on a PIR in the middle of a busy office is not a good idea. Stick several of these in and you will have even more enemies than you do now.

[Smoke Screen]

Matt, whats happened to Ady, cant he hack it.

He was there, Trevor was barely invlolved.

Perhaps Ady just looks like a bit of a Trevor?

i was very impressed by the quality and build of the kit, as always a bit of room for some minor improvements, the secondary or comformation pir is not indicated, so if faulty and in open circuit full time, it could give an imediate activation if the intuder alarm is tripped say on a maintenance, i think i would run the confirmation from a small intruder panel, then panel confirms to activate smoke - thats just me though.

Will knock this around the office a bit, initial reaction is that the secondary PIR is intended as a confirmation.

All Smoke Screen installations should be accompanied with a warning sticker fixed to the alarm panel (part of the kit supplied for every installation) warning that the system should be isolated before (for example) an output test on the alarm panel.

The hold-off is not designed to protect against engineers not recognising or being informed what their own panel has triggering outputs to(though this information should be attached to all site notes), it is more a safety measure against unwanted out of hours alarm conditions, and/or staff with finger trouble.

This is why it is secondary detection. The risks associated with a hold-off going open circuit are pretty minimal IMO (in other words, on their own they do not comprise a security risk and to cause a problem, they require another set of problems that also need addressing ((i.e. output tests without site-relevant information, or poor site staff training))) so in that respect, they could help to point out other issues

That said though, feedback is valid and welcome and we will have a knock about with it tomorrow.

, M

[Smoke Screen]

Just thinking a bit further,

One of the problems that can rear it's head is when a panel is upgraded/taken over on a site.

The original warning sticker (saying isolate smoke before performing output tests) often does not migrate onto the new panel.

A small piece of observation:

Force of habit makes me (and I know others) immediately look at stickers on the door, and look up at the ceiling whenever I go to a new site.

Sad I know, but it is an infomation gathering excercise that I cannot stop myself from doing.

If there is a smoke warning label of any sort on the door, but not on the panel..........excercise caution and do a bit of furhter investigation.

Examples of a door sticker can be found HERE

Other than that, faulty hold-offs should be picked up on routine maintenance.

[Anusoflannigan]

An interesting and informative day, I look forward to some hands on.. Definatly worth the time and effort. Great product, you cannot imagine the effect unless you see it for yourself

A special thanks to matt for his help getting me there nearly on time

And I even met the infamous A Mo... who was actually amusing and knowledgeable.. ps. do you prefer Alan, Arthur or ..George

Trains uuummm got home at 00.15!

[antinode]

HERE

Made me chuckle:

"Well... I searched for their telephone number and found the Concept Smoke Screen website (the "case study" bit is particularly fun).

Still, I'm not sure whether there is any point warning potential intruders about the smoke screen -- they could wear breathing apparatus and be safe in the knowledge that the security cameras can't see them."

[Smoke Screen]

Wish Id had spare time to go.

Richard and whistle,

There were a fair few that wanted to come and couldn't for one reason or another.

We will run some more sessions but it will certainly be another month before we can.

Will post on the forum in a similar manner to last time.

M

[Adi]

Made me chuckle:

"Well... I searched for their telephone number and found the Concept Smoke Screen website (the "case study" bit is particularly fun).

Still, I'm not sure whether there is any point warning potential intruders about the smoke screen -- they could wear breathing apparatus and be safe in the knowledge that the security cameras can't see them."

Breating apparatus wont help, if they cant see they cant see.

[arfur mo]

And I even met the infamous A Mo... who was actually amusing and knowledgeable.. ps. do you prefer Alan, Arthur or ..George

any will do, the wife use's oih you! but most in here use sh^t head!

i had great fun with good company, i wonder if matts ears have recovered yet from my bikes straight through exaust pipes noise? soz mate but i did warn you though

can i have a sachet of the smoke chemical? - it would be brilliant on my bike pipes for those speed camera's.

regs

alan