Public Panels

[Service Engineer]

But presumably you are expecting people in the trade to give the advice if the restriction is relaxed on what we give info to.

I don't expect anything of anyone, other than for any replies to be Civil.

So if the public vote that we should support all the panels that are diy or grade 1, so say someone fits a galaxy g3-144 with an ungraded bellbox and pirs, then does this become a diy panel because the install isn't graded- how do you draw the line.

Of course it doesn't, surely we all know the difference between the classes of panel.??

If the outcome is obvious then why ask the question?

Don't you ever think you know what the answer is, but ask anyway just to make sure.? or haven't you done what you thought was the correct thing, and then found out it wasn't and wished you'd asked.?? The DIY market is ever growing, and some of the questions we get here are getting ever more complex as that market grows.

The pole will be have an artificial result because virtually every member of the Public will want access to how to fix there own system or access to the engineering manual.

Although the poll is entitled Public Panels, I am infact reffering to the DIY'ers, those who have installed there own systems.. and not those who have had the systems installed and wan't to modify them.

Who do you expect to support the questions the DIY's themselves or people in the trade?

As stated above but worth repeating; "I don't expect anything of anyone, other than for any replies to be Civil".

There is only one result if the vote is left Public. Dave if you want to wideen the level of support then its up to you not the membership or the public, its you that would suffer repercussions if it goes wrong, as the owner of the site. If you want the site DIY just do it, trade guys will choose whether to participate or not.

Holly **** Guys, here's me replying to Colins post from page 1 (I think), Amazing how a hot topic gets the Trade Members buzzing.

Anyway just to Clarify, I have no changes planned regarding the way we currently do things. The initial question was asked because I do think DIY Alarming seems to be becoming more popular and wondered whether anyone thought our current way of doing things needed to be relaxed a little.?

[bellman]

Anyway just to Clarify, I have no changes planned regarding the way we currently do things. The initial question was asked because I do think DIY Alarming seems to be becoming more popular and wondered whether anyone thought our current way of doing things needed to be relaxed a little.?

Our current method works well,

The trade members that participate in the public forums usually assess the competancy of the poster and the complexity of the problem they are suffering from before determining if the poster would be capable of attempting the repair themselves.

sometimes though the reply is not what the poster wants to hear and then arguments result. surely this would increase if the scope of our help increased.

As the old saying goes, "If it aint broke, Don't fix it."

Regards

Bellman

[F C E]

Hey all, after reading the long posts i thought i add my pov which is that of a Fire alarm engineer not intruder.

we have had occurances of people supplying manuals to customers that have resulted in the customer changing things they shouldnt i.e cause and effect, zoning etc bearing in mind how bad clients can be just pressing buttons and praying like some intruder customers im sure.

The restricition on engineers manuals, installation & commissioning manuals being supplied is essential not only does it make our lives as engineers difficult trying to sort out the mess the customer has caused but the more serious incidents where in a fire/intruder condition something doesnt work that shud and caused damage, loss and god forbid death

I feel that manuals should be kept between engineers and only the bog standard user manual be supplied to the customers

i dont know how many people would agree with me but a little knowledge in the hands of the wrong person is dangerous

[Adi]

I agree with you mate. As fire is life saving equipment its an absolute no no that GP get fire alarm eng manuals.

[F C E]

I agree with you mate. As fire is life saving equipment its an absolute no no that GP get fire alarm eng manuals.

Only problem is there is no way of stopping end users getting these manuals especially if engineers leave them on site.

Classic one has got to be a call out customer saying fire alarm just gone off and no sounders activated attend site to find sounders and relays isolated ask client whats happened client says " I read about it in the engineers manual and wanted to see what it did" Imagine what would of happened if there was a real fire!!!

[Guest]

Had that today, two panels interlinked, the fools in the Shop area decided to play with the panel, the other people decided to isolate theirs. And //.B.W.F.// me there was an activation, lucky it was burnt toast. All keys removed and handed over to managing agents as i 1st told them to do .

[leesutton]

Theres been some good points and bad points and some very very long points but i still think jp shouldnt get the manuals from a trade site if they can get them from other web sites then let them , at least no one on here can get the blame if something goes wrong

lee

[Guest]

Good point, suppose the person we have been advising, then makes a serious error in the programing. The PA`s dont work, the family is injured.

The person then claims advise here caused the problem.

Sticky do do or wot.

Help, but always disclaim. We dont know what the end user is thinking at the end of the day.

[arfur mo]

Inside the panel? Fire risk or what? I don't know if it has ever happened or not, but not worth the risk, also I thought that the "Professionals" here would have picked this up much sooner. I can't remember the correct regulation to quote but are we do not put paperwork in panels, do we?

mostly i use metal end stations where there is plenty of room, and the manual is folded and are kept well away from both heat sink and transfomer.

i don't cram my panels, the gardtec range come with a folded 'quickstart' version, so if using the smaller platic end station it takes little space

regs

alan

Apparently Arf arf does.

I did notice as im sure others did but its hard to keep up with his errors let alone his posts.

He also never puts panels in lofts but he says he always contacts the loft hatch to protect the panel.

He also says he uses confirmed detection/signals yet he isnt approved by either inspectorate to connect for police response.

I cannont be bothered to trawl the whole thread for more but rest assured they will be there somewhere........

best read poperly then, i said "do you put a contact on ... meaning him, you have assumed i do that - hook line and sinker that wil be then

regs

alan

Roger was right then..... Pssst is not a word...

so i managed it in less and your still complainin???

regs

alan

Instead of changing the forum by expanding information to the public why not change it by giving arfur his own forum and restricting him to it.

Two things for sure:

1) It wouldn't stop him talking, he would still do it in abundance so it wouldn't cause him any hardship.

2) We could opt out and then everyone would be happy - we wouldn't have to listen and he could post rubbish and then agree with it.

very true, if i were in this world al on my own - there would be two political parties

regs

alan

Apparently Arf arf does.

I did notice as im sure others did but its hard to keep up with his errors let alone his posts.

He also never puts panels in lofts but he says he always contacts the loft hatch to protect the panel.

He also says he uses confirmed detection/signals yet he isnt approved by either inspectorate to connect for police response.

I cannont be bothered to trawl the whole thread for more but rest assured they will be there somewhere........

i often see on other's instals a plasic folder attached to the lid stuffed full of spec, log book various engineer notes and pir manuals, those they can't get rammed into the space behind the panel. right where the cable entries are which are also air vents

nice tinder box effect

hmmmm!

regs

alan

Why should arfur have a monopoly on useless information?

i don't - i share with you that honour

regs

alan

[arfur mo]

Now that a lot of what we once considered TRADE only panels are being sold by the likes of Screwfix and numerous online retailers, should we be re-thinking what information/advice we are willing to discuss in these public forums.?

Should the fact these panels are easilly purchasable by the public, and that most of these panels manuals are readilly available online at quite a few sites mean that any related queries should be up for discussion..?

for the sake of brevity

thats the orignal leeched from daves #1

my opinion, no bar to just DIY manuals is intended

what we once considered TRADE only panels are being sold by the likes of Screwfix ie they are still available to trade.

so all manuals are 'fair game' in the context of the op.

i also don't like the idea of users having engineer manuals willy nilly, but i think they have right to them if they ask but use at their own risk - get it signed for.

alarmgard keeps saying i avoiding the issue but has not stated why he feels we should not give them out - i just want to know why or how it would lower a ytems integraty, or is he like others being a protectionist - fine just want to know.

Was that the original question or was that one of your many digressions yes.gif

it is contained with Daves post - read and absorb, god knows how you ever understand A MANUAL if ever you do! or is Dave post not clear enough for you?

in this thread alarmgard keeps sniping over what standards i use, yet i do not question his, strange as he has never seen my work so dismiss him as an ignorant ill informed creten.

Alan those people that do know me will know that I worked full time in London until last Summer and even no spend up to 15 days a month down there, so you may be suprised that I may know more about you and your installations than you may think.

and your point being? so you worked in london, are you then saying you have actually seen more than my siren covers? are you claiming to have actually entered a building with one of my systems in?

At your age Alan I would have thought that resorting to name calling was extremely childish.

oh, just so as long as i know it's ok for you then? your snide and unwarrented references to cowboys jog your memory a little? and YOU try to take the high ground - hipocrocy or what

should i say what my standards are, well i have very high ones, so like it or lump it thats all i'm saying on it and i do not care a dead turkeys left tit for any more unwarrented silly sniping

so alarmgard your turn to answer the question

I will answer your question Alan once you have answered the one that I have asked what standards do you install to? The answer you have given is clearly that of a person who doesn't know the answer or possibly even in my opinion falls into the category of Cowboy installer.

sounds like another prevaricatingly large dose of avoidance to me

regs

alan

Theres been some good points and bad points and some very very long points but i still think jp shouldnt get the manuals from a trade site if they can get them from other web sites then let them , at least no one on here can get the blame if something goes wrong

lee

hi lee,

thats a fair point to raise, imo the supply of the maual won't exposes anyone on here to that risk. i don't think any panel makers ahve had any such problems that i have heard of.

obviously, any ill concidered advice given could do so, thats one for screwfix to worry about more than us - i hope .

regs

alan