Guest Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 .... However, if I was Joe Public and was looking at this site and I saw that the panel that I just bought off the shelf was being discussed to the point that my next door neighbour could come in and in a matter of seconds could default my alarm, I don't think I would be very happy ... at least joe public would understand at this point he needs a new system.. (and/or installer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Personally i believe we should not give out total amounts of info on here. By all means help "joe public" but when they come up against a problem then we "charge" so to speak. Imagine if everyone found this site, or others (like here i doubt), and got all the info they needed. Next thing we would have sparkies telling us how to do things, telecoms engineers showing the way to run cables, and geeks with a laptop saying thats impossible. Oh we already do have that problem, dont we The problem is we live in an age where people expect to have total control of their own lives, and to be told your system is yours paid for by your own sweat and tears, but you have no control over it..............and they didnt want it in the first place the insurers insisted. YOU WORK OUT THE CUSTOMERS FRUSTRATION.....! Another reason i feel we should not give out too much info is this (EEEK, Just realised this is public) I am also a locksmith, want to know 5 easy tricks to bypass the common "Yales", soz Yale was a reference there, not a generalisation. Or the Chubb`s (going to be saying sorry a lot now), how about the good old Banham. Once was called to a rouge alarm, typical keyholders were incorrect. Opened the ****** locks in under 45 seconds, killed the bells and as i was leaving with the police and enviromental health officer the owners turned up. They were told by neighbours they were fools and deservered the treatment they had recieved, best of all they told the owners their new locks they had boasted about took less than a minute to bypass. Oops rambled there, moral of this story........Yes lets tell everyone how to do our jobs, whos 1st in line for the dole office then.............or prison. Dont we get vetted for a reason, For //.B.W.F.// Sake we even get vetted to become a trade member here. I dont see it as an exclusive club, however how many other people do you know who are allowed an intimacy with clients and knowledge of valuable items and codes (because we are trusted with codes for some reason) and not get tempted to do the wrong thing. Think the last bit says it all If i wasnt clear there, the answer was NO PS You dont call a plumber out to fix your car do you, or you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 i wouldn't mind if we don't let joe public in at all but since they are here i don't see a problem with them being told how they can tamper with their own system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 The problem i see is some fool will rip out the mains and kill himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted July 23, 2006 Author Share Posted July 23, 2006 blimey did you know you were in the Jo Public Area with this question?Of course I did.? Although I am mainly concerned with Trade Members opinions on this matter, I am also curious as to the Public's point of view, especially the DIY'ing members.This topic will result in an artificial Vote due to its location.I Disagree, if this topic had been placed in the Trade forums, the poll wouldn't have been un-biased. And it's outcome obvious.I agree, this is not a question that should be inviting a public response.I do not agree with giving out such information - whether its available from Screwfix or not, we should draw the line at anything that provides information on defaulting or "getting around" a panel or a system. Bear in mind also that giving information on a Grade 1 panel, (and yes some engineers fit them and certify them), may also be giving information on the same manufacturer's panels of a higher grade. If someone buys a panel from Screwfix then so be it, let him/her work it out - and remember we have already established that many other non-Grade 1 panels are available to the public ... Castle, Gardtec for example! This Information is readilly available on many other sites, many online wholesalers freely distribute the user and engineer manuals for the equipment they sell. If they don't find the information they want here, then they will find it elsewhere. Surely descriptive advice from an engineer, is better than trial and error from the manual? If the panel is publically purchaseable, and the engineer manuals are freely available elsewhere online in PDF format for most ungraded or class 1 panels, then why as a security advice & information site with a large publc section do we have a problem with answering any questions we get asked.? I agree we should draw the line at supplying Defaulting information, and supplying Engineer manuals ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Of course I did.? Although I am mainly concerned with Trade Members opinions on this matter, I am also curious as to the Public's point of view, especially the DIY'ing members.I Disagree, if this topic had been placed in the Trade forums, the poll wouldn't have been un-biased. And it's outcome obvious. This Information is readilly available on many other sites, many online wholesalers freely distribute the user and engineer manuals for the equipment they sell. If they don't find the information they want here, then they will find it elsewhere. Surely descriptive advice from an engineer, is better than trial and error from the manual? If the panel is publically purchaseable, and the engineer manuals are freely available elsewhere online in PDF format for most ungraded or class 1 panels, then why as a security advice & information site with a large publc section do we have a problem with answering any questions we get asked.? I agree we should draw the line at supplying Defaulting information, and supplying Engineer manuals But if the information is as you state, available on other sites. Then what are we keeping secret, just an observation. As stated before, some damn fools going to pull the wrong wires and kill hmself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 I Disagree, if this topic had been placed in the Trade forums, the poll wouldn't have been un-biased.And it's outcome obvious. But presumably you are expecting people in the trade to give the advice if the restriction is relaxed on what we give info to. So if the public vote that we should support all the panels that are diy or grade 1, so say someone fits a galaxy g3-144 with an ungraded bellbox and pirs, then does this become a diy panel because the install isn't graded- how do you draw the line. If the outcome is obvious then why ask the question? The pole will be have an artificial result because virtually every member of the Public will want access to how to fix there own system or access to the engineering manual. Who do you expect to support the questions the DIY's themselves or people in the trade? There is only one result if the vote is left Public. Dave if you want to wideen the level of support then its up to you not the membership or the public, its you that would suffer repercussions if it goes wrong, as the owner of the site. If you want the site DIY just do it, trade guys will choose whether to participate or not. Also if there buying so called DIY panels, why shouldn't they get the support from the people they are buying the panels from, they got paid and had the profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 The problem i see is some fool will rip out the mains and kill himself. i see some fool driving a car 100mph and killing others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Also if there buying so called DIY panels, why shouldn't they get the support from the people they are buying the panels from, they got paid and had the profit. The retailer can't give them support as they only shift boxes, if they can't understand the diy manual provided with the controls then have the choice to ring tech support (usally a premuim number) or post here being the "free" option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 i see some fool driving a car 100mph and killing others. Your point being? Most common road deaths are achieved at 43 MPH, you work out the KPH. The retailer can't give them support as they only shift boxes, if they can't understand the diy manual provided with the controls then have the choice to ring tech support (usally a premuim number) or post here being the "free" option. So its fine to let a fool into a mains driven device? Not that customers are fools, they have more than us for a start, otherwise why have an expensive bit of kit. For the most i feel the customer knows the service he is getting and does actually appreciate this, hence the ongoing contracts. The "cheapskates" who want to do a install and get stuck, well isnt this why the header stating, "We dont Give out manuals" there for a reason! And we wonder why they introduced all the regs to limit false alarms................................ PPPPPP................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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