Alarm Communication Issues

[cymruchris]

Now here's one that's stumped us - and so I thought I'd offer it to all you 'experts' to see if you have any other ideas.

As mentioned in previous posts - I'm in retail security - and we have 400+ stores. Of these stores we have a mix of intruder systems, and a mix of communication methods with the ARC.

So - here's the issue.

Of the 400 stores - around 40 are high street locations that have been around donkeys years. They are fitted with differing alarm panels, and are maintained by one of two different providers (both big names), and are monitored by one central ARC. Of these 40 stores, we are having issues with around 20 - and have had the issue for a number of months. The only other common feature they all have - is that they are DigiCom systems, not Redcare or IP monitoring.

When the stores close, they set the alarm, leave the store, and go home. A couple of hours later the ARC runs a report to see who hasn't closed yet, and they begin ringing round to find out why stores are still open. When they speak to these high street stores, the staff know that they've set the alarm, although the close signal has not come through.

The keyholders then revisit site - open, then close, and the ARC centre then receives the close signal with no issue.

We've had BT engineers looking at the lines, no fault found.

Alarm engineers looking at the alarms, no fault found.

We've replaced some of the Digi coms with new units - the problem still persists.

The ARC has fitted more lines to ensure there's no blockage at their end.

Yet - randomly, and not all stores, and never the same stores on the same night - from time to time - the high street stores keep getting these phone calls from the ARC saying that close signal has not been received. It's completely random. We have days where all alarms set - we have days where a number don't send the 'close' signal. Some happen a couple of times a week - others happen once a fortnight. It's all over the country - and not just in one geographical area.

That's my first post for starters - anyone have any ideas? I don't really want to have to upgrade every alarm so that we can use IP monitoring - it's a bit expensive.

If you have any questions I'll attempt to answer them

[Guest rjbsec]

Have you called the alarm co in to investigate? {Edit, yes you have!}

Did they check the log to see if the panels attempted to dial out the close signal, in other words is it a panel problem or a line/receiver problem?

If you have one site that is particularly a problem why not ask the alarm co to change the digi to report to another receiver it may highlight the problem being receiver related.

[cymruchris]

Have you called the alarm co in to investigate? {Edit, yes you have!}

Did they check the log to see if the panels attempted to dial out the close signal, in other words is it a panel problem or a line/receiver problem?

Yes they did - and yes it did.

If you have one site that is particularly a problem why not ask the alarm co to change the digi to report to another receiver it may highlight the problem being receiver related.

Another receiver - as in another ARC number? (Excuse my ignorance)

I'm off to watch a store being broken into now - so will be back later. I may even see one of you when you come and fix it.

If there are any more views, ideas, thoughts suggestions - I look forward to reading them later on...

[Guest rjbsec]

Another receiver - as in another ARC number? (Excuse my ignorance)

Yes.

[ian.cant]

Logic says imo that the common denominitor here is the arc.

If they are testing ok at the panel end and you have no log reports from the panels saying otherwise it looks highly likely that its the arc software is missing something (not that i know much about arc software).

It cant be a coincidence that all these stores are having similar problems at different times, its got to be at the arc end.

Im sure its an inconvenience having to return to the store later in the evening so why not have the closed report checked at the time of closing, surely all your keyholding staff have mobiles?

They could advise the arc that the system has been set and should be showing closed and have it confirmed there and then or delt with there and then.

[Brian c]

I'd have to agree with Ian. If you have had BT and the alarm co's look at the sites and the logs, and you have changed the digi's, and still the same problems persist then it sounds more than likely to be a problem with the ARC. You say that you have two alarm co's but you are using just one ARC. I'd imagine that communication traffic would be very busy at the time your stores close (Do they all close at the same time?).

All digi's I know of, have a 'handshake' with the ARC and then know wether they have sent the signals or not. If they do not send it correctly first time they keep on trying. They can also store transmissions for signalling when able to.

What I'm getting at is that if they 'couldn't get through' at say, 6 o'clock and engineer turns up at 8 o'clock to test it, the digi should send the original 'close' then the 'open' and then the 'close'. Check with your ARC to see if this is the case. If they don't get the original 'close' then it must be getting lost in their system somehow?! If they do get the original 'close' then it sounds like a problem with 'volume of traffic' at that time.

Also, do any of your sites have 'on board' digi's (eg. Galaxy panel with telecoms module) or a 'fail to communicate' output wired to the panel? If so, they should signal on the panel (and in the log) that the 'close' was not sent. If you have sites like this and there is no evidence of a 'fail to communicate' then that would point to a problem with the ARC's software also, as the digi has received it's 'handshake' that the signal was sent.

You could try a couple things....

The ARC you use may have multiple receivers. The digi can be programmed to dial 2 different numbers in case the first is busy.

or

You could change a couple of the problem sites to a different ARC.

Personally I think it's down to volume of calls to the ARC at that time. Either signals not getting through at all, or signals not getting processed through their software properly.

As Ian syas, in the meantime it would certainly be worth getting the staff to check the 'close' has been received by the ARC as they leave, instead of returning later that night.

[breff]

Not sure what digis they are but how many dial attempts do they have programmed, I always set mine to 9 as at busy times it can be difficult to get through.

If they are old panels with standalone digis then chances are there will be no log of a failure to communicate.

[whistle]

Whe i worked for a national we had a run of this kind of problem from one customer only.

This customer had many shops and used iuts own ARC. I wont mention it as we are in public

I would often get a call out at 11 pm shop did not show closed when i arived on site and tested all ok.

same as above all digi and all same arc.

Never did get to the bottom of it.

[Nova-Security]

Are all your telephones provided by BT, if you company uses a call routing company to get the cheapest calls then this is your problem, most high street stores use call routing to lower their costs, if your company uses this then your alarm company should have spotted this.

On the ARC not having enough lines, doubt this. A digi will keep trying until its get a kiss off from the ARC or until it reaches a maximum number of tries which is normally 10.

If call routing is in place get your alarm Co to put prefix the number the digi dials, with the magic number that forces it back on to the BT network for the digi call only.

Public area so cant post the number.

[Guest rjbsec]

Some receivers get over-busy and with intermittent faults like this my money is on this type of failure at the ARC.

When the alarm co checked the system did the panel log show multiple attempts to dial out?

Did it show a fail to communicate or comms failure?