Learning ?

[binthere]

Ok guys, I have upset some of you with my, err, let's say "stupid" post about engineer codes a few weeks ago. So this time I'll try to make an intelligent post.

I have a great interest in alarm systems and I would like to learn the common practices of the industry. I suppose that the first thing that you respect (as qualified professionnal) are regulations. Where can I find them ?

I have read a lot of alarms user manuals, and I'm starting to have a good idea of the possible options that a domestic alarm system offers. But in which ways does a retail/industry alarm system differ ? I suppose it is the kind of info I would get from some regs.

I do not expect to get so called "trade secrets" here (if any). I just want to know more to be able to participate more in this forum.

I know that a good idea would be that I get hired as a trainee somewhere, but I do not have time for this. I simply do not want to become a profesionnal installer, I just want to improve my knowledge.

I do not ask for information that is not public. I understand that for security reasons some information has to be kept secret (defaulting instructions for example). I am simply not interested in these "how to do XXX for panel YYY" stuff, just knowing that a system can be defaulted is enough for me, as it's only the therorical aspects and principles that interest me for now.

Any info for me ? What is the first thing you learn to your trainees ?

Let me be your virtual trainee !

..and I hope that this topic will not degenerate ! I just want to learn.

uski

Sorry mate but I feel you have lost the plot and need to take another look at what you want.

There is far more in fact much more about alarm installations than you obviously are not aware of, we have 4 engineers all have learn't 'on the job'

There is no way reading manual is a quick means of entry into the industry.

Sitting in a classroom on taking a quick course from an organisation like 'Learn Direct' will help but it is useless in reality.

You need to know how building are designed, how to lift carpets, floorboards, avoid water pipes, gas pipes, mains cables the list is endless.

You need to know about building fabrics how and when to drill, sizes of drill's and what side of a wall to drill.

How to use tools, fishing rods, cavities, voids, roof spaces etc etc.

My advice is first make up your mind what you want think carefully about 'callouts' dealings with your local police, keyholder details, council contacts, enviromental polution act etc etc.

If you are still keen then find a friendly installer and offer your labour.

Sorry but I have recollections of one 'so called' alarm installer with a dolphin logo on bell boxes that had so called alarm engineers that specialised at charging the old and vulnerable hugh amounts of money to install wire free systems that rarely worked properly due to the fact their quick trained engineers know zero about the trade which must include deterrents, detectors, things to avoid etc etc.

We have all taken years to learn and will not give away trade secrets easily to persons who want a 'get rich quick' policy, it does not work like that.

Do it the right way and I wish you luck do it the wrong way and you will become known locally as another cowboy which will struggle for work.

B/T

It takes years to begin to understand

[Guest]

Hmm.....

I guess you, Mr Happy, like everyone else, overlooked the location of uski - Paris, France! :'(

nope

You can read them in a public library (uk anyway)

[Guest G.J.M]

Sorry mate but I feel you have lost the plot and need to take another look at what you want.

There is far more in fact much more about alarm installations than you obviously are not aware of, we have 4 engineers all have learn't 'on the job'

There is no way reading manual is a quick means of entry into the industry.

Sitting in a classroom on taking a quick course from an organisation like 'Learn Direct' will help but it is useless in reality.

You need to know how building are designed, how to lift carpets, floorboards, avoid water pipes, gas pipes, mains cables the list is endless.

You need to know about building fabrics how and when to drill, sizes of drill's and what side of a wall to drill.

How to use tools, fishing rods, cavities, voids, roof spaces etc etc.

My advice is first make up your mind what you want think carefully about 'callouts' dealings with your local police, keyholder details, council contacts, enviromental polution act etc etc.

If you are still keen then find a friendly installer and offer your labour.

Sorry but I have recollections of one 'so called' alarm installer with a dolphin logo on bell boxes that had so called alarm engineers that specialised at charging the old and vulnerable hugh amounts of money to install wire free systems that rarely worked properly due to the fact their quick trained engineers know zero about the trade which must include deterrents, detectors, things to avoid etc etc.

We have all taken years to learn and will not give away trade secrets easily to persons who want a 'get rich quick' policy, it does not work like that.

Do it the right way and I wish you luck do it the wrong way and you will become known locally as another cowboy which will struggle for work.

B/T

It takes years to begin to understand

he does not want to be an installer. Form the sounds of it he wants it as a hobby...

[Guest G.J.M]

you forgot train spotting

good fun

[Guest]

Your all picking on him,

I must resist, i must resist

[Anusoflannigan]

I think he's gone

[uski]

I think he's gone

Well, I just don't know what to answer.

It just seems that you don't want to share your knowledge nor to help.

I can't blame you on that (and I don't want to), it's your business, and you want to keep it and, more importantly, protect it.

I will simply continue to read the forum, grabbing infos here and here.

uski

[uski]

I just don't get it. Why would anyone want to spend time and money learning about our profession unless there was a desire to become a security engineer?

I am just interested in everything that is related to security.

I regularly work for some of my relatives who are installing awnings, rolling shutters, ...

I am interested in that, I have learnt a lot of things, but I won't make it my business.

When my father explains me why he uses at least 6 different types of screws, I am fascinated. And I want to know more. I have the same reaction here when I see your posts. Thus my initial post in the topic.

I am currently in an electronic engineering school, and I will really not become a security installer. It's not what I want to do.

My reply was a bit flippant, but I really do think that there are other, much more rewarding pastimes.

It depends of what you are looking for. Recently I spent a lot of times learning facts and rules about railway. It won't make ma qualified train driver, and I don't want to become one. And I will not pretend to be one just because I know the rules. I'm just enjoying spending my past time learning about things that I don't learn at school. I omitted to say that I am living in France because I don't care reading UK, US, or any other regs. I won't apply them professionnaly, I just want to see the structure of them, how they are made. It simply doesn't matter if they are not the same here. Reading them will help me improving my english, which is a good thing (another thing I'd like to improve).

In fact I know how the alarm panels are made, and I know how to make one. It's my job. What is lacking is the "on the field" knowledge, the things that you spent years to learn. That's why I said that I understand why you want to protect this. I didn't realise that I was here just by hobby but that you are really making a living of alarm systems. I just wasn't in the "business" configuration, so I didn't realise well that you wil want to protect as much information as possible.

And I understand why you "don't get it". I think that I would have the same reaction if someone went to see me and told me "I'm a doctor but I want to learn everything about electronic engineering". It would seem a bit odd.

And I would also probably tell him that he can't learn that only by reading a few books, and that practice is really mandatory if he wants to do anything useful.

I also understand your concern about my situation. I understand that there are a lot of people imagining they will learn a business in a day reading some papers and that they will be able to charge