Ventcroft Ltd. Redesigning Their Range Of Bell Boxes

[vampsthevampyre]

Ventcroft are in the middle of redesigning our complete range of bell boxes and are looking for feedback from installers as to what are the current requirements and features that are needed for todays installations (Its been 10 years since I last done an install and I'm sure things have changed since then).

Currently we see the market place split up into three distinct sectors. these are

1) DIY installations. (I.E. not to any British Standards, or Insurance requirements)

a) Classic 'C' type design (I.E Strobe at the bottom of a vertical bell box)

B) Only White/Blue colour option

c) No cover over the electronics or the Strobe lens is the cover (I.E. No dual Skin)

d) Backup battery? - does this level of bell box require a battery (Cost)

e) Hard wired battery or plug in?

f) 15 minute timer with a selectable 5 second test (Engineer hold off)

g) Small design (Does this need a logo space, bigger design = more money )

h) Single or Twin Piezo (Price again)

i) Single Siren Tone

j) Alternating LED's

k) ABS or Polypropylene plastics (Again this is a price issue, currently ABS is cheaper)

l) Possible Security Grade 1/2 Environment 3/4 (If any required again higher grade more cost)

2) British Standard / Insurance required alarm installations

a) Security Grade 3 Environment 4

B) Two maybe three designs ('C' type, Delta ,horizontal)

c) Multiple timers, Enhanced Engineer hold off

d) Polycarbonate or ABS Covers

e) Dual Skins

f) colour options (Covers and Strobe)

g) Basic fault reporting

h) Universal triggering (I.E. Positive/Negative on both siren and strobe) is this necessary?

i) 45' terminal blocks

j) Multiple sound options

k) Single / Twin Piezo

l) Cable entry / cable retaining

m) Fault output

3) High security Installs (all features as per option 2 plus the following)

a) Security grade 4 Environmental 4

B) Full diagnostic reporting (Battery, Strobe, Piezo's)

c) Drill and Foam Detection

d) Metal Inner skins (or do you require metal outers)

These lists are not meant to be a definitive list of the options just a few ideas to get you guys started, the are other issues like mounting options (how many mounting holes and the shapes) What would be your idea bell box for your type of installation and your reasons (Please no replies saying a

[Alarm Protection]

Hi Ian,

We currently use the Gardtec XS3D(at the moment) and have only had 1 fault out of 100 so far. I like the triangle design myself but the LED's are not bright enough. It has a weatherproof enclosure within covering the circuits and battery.

The most improtant factors of bell boxes for me would be the ease of fitting, they have to be sturdy with all the weather that hits them(especially up here in rainy Scotland) and bright LED's for visual indication at night.

Gardtec are bringing a new bell out in the next few weeks which has a 3 LED indication, a built in spirit level etc.

[Nova-Security]

SAB battery wired in to terminals so it can be replaced, most now are solder on to the board

[vampsthevampyre]

Wow how fast are u lot, I turn around for 1 minute and half a dozen posts appear.

With regards to the low current what sort of current are you after?

Unfortunately there is always a trade off low current = lower sound or a slower strobe.

what would be your preferance? (or a user selectable option)

as for the bubble does it need to be a british one or can I import a chinese bubble?

nova

Is a battery cable tied to the board with the terminals still in the outside ok? or would you want it attached say to the inner skin (electronics cover) as transport may be a problem (batteries bouncing around.

rjbsec

would just a cable gland on the backplate be acceptable?

[vampsthevampyre]

Just as an off the wall thought how many installers out the routinely carry laptop computers to site?

would there be any requirement for a truely networked bell box all programmed from a pc.

you could even upload your own siren e.g. "Sod of u buggers I've called the police" although throu a piezo I'm not too sure it will sound quite like that.

[Deltaseven]

Important to me -

Ease of fitting - especially on irregular surfaces - - Texe's Oddy 3 is superb for this

Double-skin to protect PCB from elements and insects - Texe's Oddy 3 is superb for this

Different models with the same cover for diffeerent price installations -Texe's Oddy 3 is superb for this

Hold off which can be activated from the panel/keypad - Texe's Oddy 3 is superb for this

Basic reporting (like the LEDs on the Texe Range...)

You might guess that I like the Texecom Odssey....

D7

[Nova-Security]

nova

Is a battery cable tied to the board with the terminals still in the outside ok? or would you want it attached say to the inner skin (electronics cover) as transport may be a problem (batteries bouncing around.

The ones we use Elmdene the battery in held on the back plate in a battery holder with a strong rubber band to hold it in place with leads to the battery terminals.

Just an idea for you, strobes you cant realy see them in the day so the are no use, but at night you can, would you not also see the ultra bright clear leds, these must be a lower current consumption that a strobe with a charging/firing circuit.

Also make your leads the same colour not red and green, sometimes you can only see one and the amount of customers that have made a comment.

[Nova-Security]

Personally prefer the different colour led's.

Had to be one

[FASTCAR]

I agree Mr Nova,

High brightness white LEDs instead of a strobe , similar to the camera phones , no high voltage to worry about , lower current and more flexible options .

[james.wilson]

Not sure if all this is possible but i was asked my opion of the dream bellbox a few years ago and the bulk of it is still current (no pun intended)

1) Flexible mounting options (ie holes in backplate to match the 'common' (read this as you will) bell boxes for takeovers

2) Cheapversion (with most of the bits missing) for domestics single piezo, single strobe 6v battery no cover etc Proper version with bigger battery, twin piezo's platic or s/s skin etc I would market the cheap version on price and charge for the extras, if we want cheapmess we will use the 'el cheapo' version

3) leveling bubble

4) adjustable screw holes. Not the ------ type we need curved ones so we can twist the bell when on rendered walls etc.

5) I like a single fixing to the front of the bell ie through it as then you dont loose all the skin on your knuckles in 2 yrs time when its stiff and when rendered rund you can still get into the thing

6) Personalistion in king. We dont want a triangle, we want a circle, some want square some want an X. If the lid is seperate to the electronics then you canmake as many lids you need to without loads of backs. I beleive the car companies do this with floorpans

7) I prefer soldered batteries they last long enough once thats failed id rather replace the whole thing. Plus a sab i can carry in the vans, a battery is difficult

8) 45 degree conectors are only used by marketing people and poor designers you have put the terminal block somewhere you cant get at it. Can we please have the old 90 degree type. We used them fine for 30 years WTF is with all this 45 degree stuff. There noot deep enough you either cant see the terminal or the screw

9) 1 tamper switch 2 or 3 make it 2 or 3 times more likely to fail.

10) Have the tamper switches accessible. These things fail more than nicad batteries

11) Flashing lights, customers love flashing lights even meaningless ones. The more it looks like 1970's star trek the better. There was talk a while a go of twin ambers etc. Two seperate colours more or less irrelevant what they are

12) for the flash people id like the bell to have a 485 line on so i can program it through the panel, but i feel this will be led by the panel manufacturers unless you can agree a bell standard. Bear in mind this has to be able to cable of a RIO or eqiv. We cant always get back to the panel

13) Easy whole board replacement. After 5 years 2x10's tend to want to stay in the wall. If we have a faulty bell it needs to be quick and easy to change. Oh and use screws to hold this board in as plastic clips are always too complicated and break!

14) A backplate that can take a certain amount of flex (rendered/pepple dask etc. Without its lid not fitting correctly or tamperswitches not lining up

15) A back tamper that is adjustable, we cant always get the sab within 1.02222mm of the wall

16) Needs to be fairly water resistant to be able to be fitted in slight rain. Engineers want to get the bell up and get away from site. If its spitting they are still gonna fit it, and then say couldnt omplete the job boss faulty sab. I dont mean waterproof but not so it goes pop from a humid bathroom

17) I cant remember all the ites but this is the ones i can. If i rememrb any more or find the list i did for another manufacturer ill let you know