Home Alarm Advice Please

[Guest RICHL]

I totally DISAGREE with Richl.

You can have a good system installed to GOOD standard for this price. We have fit about 50,000 of these over the last 12 years and 'most' are installed well.

SSAIB is NOT a sign for good installation. Trust me we have seen a lot.

It costs very little to be an approved installer - you have to ask why an installer would not be approved when it opens up so much more of the security market.

There are far more rough jobs done by none approved than approved. No body is looking over yours or your bosses shoulder.

And why would anyone have a service contract with a non approved installer?

[Guest]

You can have a good system installed to GOOD standard for this price. We have fit about 50,000 of these over the last 12 years and 'most' are installed well.

I would assume when you say "good" you don't mean to the relevant standard do you?

Ask BELLMAN (moderator), he used to do it for us!

Now if he was to return I suppose that would validate your point

[Guest]

... ... but that was a monitored alarm, so presumably the installer was either SSAIB or NSI.... so probably not a budget installer

again theres "monitored" and monitored to the correct standards

HOMEGUARD has its own central monitoring station that is now operational and manned 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Imagine having someone sat in your house 24 hours a day; 365 days a year!

[Guest]

I think that is Mr Happy 2. Alarm Guard 1 if memory serves me correct..

Oh right your keeping score? I did not realise it was so competitive in here

[Guest Riggers]

Seems as if this thread has turned into a bit of a slanging match, thanks to thoses who offered advice, I will go a head and get a few quotes from local companys.

[arfur mo]

It costs very little to be an approved installer - you have to ask why an installer would not be approved when it opens up so much more of the security market.

There are far more rough jobs done by none approved than approved. No body is looking over yours or your bosses shoulder.

And why would anyone have a service contract with a non approved installer?

hi RICHL,

hope me and you aint ganna fall out over this matey, but you make too many broad assumptions.

i'm am non-REGISTERED installer but 'approved' of by many, those customers who look over m shoulder in fact, and see a neat and tidy system well designed, exsplained and implemented. a subtle point but i have traded this way without any advertising for 26 years.

yes i do the job my way and with close regard to current standards, i am not forced to cut corners by fast turnover market pressure, or accountants who decide a pir @

[Guest RICHL]

Not wishing to go too far off topic but I will reply to this as it may help the O/P in his decision.

i'm am non-REGISTERED installer but 'approved' of by many, those customers who look over m shoulder in fact, and see a neat and tidy system well designed, exsplained and implemented. a subtle point but i have traded this way without any advertising for 26 years.

Not good enough! What will a customer see when they look over your shoulder? They know nothing about what we do. I looked over a mechanics shoulder the other day when he was working on my car and saw some oily, greasy stuff. Then I went for a pee.

yes i do the job my way and with close regard to current standards, i am not forced to cut corners by fast turnover market pressure, or accountants who decide a pir @

[arfur mo]

arther, hopefully me and you aint gonna fall out over this either

While you say that a customer is your inspector, how does your customer get to have the knowledge to actually know what your doing. While i dont think you cut corners and you do fit to standards there is nothing to enforce you to do so. While i think there is a place for quality companies such as your self with low overheads etc, that is a different market (rightly so) to the approved market. We have the vehicles, van stock, office staff, sales and a toilet with male and female stckers on it! Obviously as you state this requires considerable resources

What happens if your ill, heaven forbid at a wedding funeral or a lazy holiday. What then. Plus all companies were unapproved at one time at decided to go the approved way. I also agree its not a cheap excersise for a 'one man band' to go down the approved route and of course economies of scale apply.

While im sure there are some companies that are approved that need to improve, there is at least a way the end user can get something done, while the unapproved side this isnt the case. The nscia was originally setup by the abi as a means of ensuring standards (some say to ensure the insurances are in place)

ALso system silver or the non iso ssaib dont have the paperwork requirement of nsi gold etc.

I must say after going through the approval process of nscia, through nacoss and now nsi, it has helped our compnay in many ways and even if were not approved would operate the same way. And yes there are largeish cost implications.

Im not knocking small installers in anyway as some of these installs i have seen have been first class. But like you say there are approved companies with the same ethos!!

Please dont take offence at anything i have said as it is npt meant

hi james,

you comments are fair and taken in good faith by me, but now i'm gonna get some real flak!

i was a little peeved at the broad brush used against the independent non-registerd guys and the glib dismissal as to why they are not registered. registered installer's would have rose and impailed me if i had said all of you NSI/SAIB mob were just an over priced bunch of numb nutts - end of.

this might be a tardy bios'd view, but i was arround at the inception of NSCIA. it was viewed as a big boys club of Chubbs, Securicor, Grop 4, AFA ammong others, setup and designed mainly to squeeze out the small independent guys like me but ostensivelly disgussed introducing 'standards'.

it soon turned into a headless monster as the Insurrence Copanies eventually got in on the act thinking along the same lines, the 'big boys' did all the 'reseach' to set up 'standards' and the small guys reaped the benifit, we simply used the same kit now available on the open market and without that 'research' investment.

as for the buisness of complaint to the governing bodies? it's a great idea in principle but fairly toothless in life great schemes imo - just ask yourself, how many companies were actually expelled or heavily fined from either body in the last year? and how many companies so registered totally broke the rules on the jobs youve seen when your company took them over?

to complain properly, requires a good level of engineering understanding - how many clients are that knowledgeable to know a bad installation when they see one? or the regs that have not been applied dilligently? many can't even be bothered as long as the insurrance co are happy and it 'sets' the same yard stick many of my clients use, so you see we are not that different in accountability or being held to it really.

for both of us the client always has the 'sale of goods' act as well as the 'fit for the purpose' legislation. i can not afford to ignore my client base's best intensions, they feed me my repeat works. it takes a long time to gain a good reputation by word of mouth only, and a very short time to lose it. if my systems play up or fail to work on an intrussion that word of mouth would also get arround like wildfire.

if i am not available for what ever reason, i have an arrangement with several local companies to cover me if needed - they nave never been called. they use me for my skills on occasions for difficult fault finding jobs or phone help, perhaps they can't sus a fault because their best tech's on holiday so it's a scratch backs arrangement that others use too.

ok guys, load your cannons and off we go

regs

alan

[arfur mo]

Im not knocking anyone. It is however my opinion that a customer would be best advised to always use a SSAIB or NSI approved installer. There maybe some good non-approved installers, but in my experience they are few and far between.

Hi RICHL,

for the sake of peace and not repeating my above post, i agree with you if the OP has no one he knows he is far better to approach a registered installer, just the same as for his car, use the main agents if you don't know a good mechanic (at least you won't see them take a pee).

for me at 57 it would seem a lot of effort for no real reason. in recent years i have moved more into CCTv, Networking and Telecoms. it's a simple sum a days work in Alarms = 'n

[arfur mo]

hi all,

just off to z land,

Hi RICHL,

you asked what i meant by 'close regard' it was alternative to 'lip service'. knowing the standards and applying them not always follows.

i can't find the post so sorry for not addressing whoever.

someone mentioned fines being issued for non-compliances to registered installers, can i suggest you add up all the compliance certs issued over a the last year and devide that by the total inspectors available in both inspectorates to see what figure you come up with with pro rata per inspector - i'll be generous include all inspectors from both bodies, nearest 5 thousand will do and this is for the last year only.

so if you then add-in the previous year figures, and the one before that how many non-compliances get noticed against not noticed?

the sites inspected are 'fed' to the inspectors, if they go to site i was told by an NSI inspector they do not lift j/b lid's, so all i can say is OMG how can you really be checked?.

come on, hand on heart say 'we never ever turn a blind eye' - not too many if you were honest imo.

it's like speeding we should not do it the law says so, some are very diligent 28mph third lane M4, other's say 1 ticket every 100 k miles covered is ok to live with so 140mph in any lane - get my drift?

so, come on now - crocodile tears or what?

regs

alan