Nsi Gold

[james.wilson]

arfur, i have complained about issues of other comapnies and they have been acted upon, so unsure of your comment. Please do start another inspectorate the more we can do to raise stds the better

[arfur mo]

arfur, i have complained about issues of other comapnies and they have been acted upon, so unsure of your comment. Please do start another inspectorate the more we can do to raise stds the better

hi james,

you as a 'Gold' must be as anoyed as anyone with this companie's performance if it is true they too hold a gold registration. in your position and other's like you i would be incandesent. because i am at that 'state', and i'm not in any inspectorate.

so i'm not bouncing up and down trying to 'put the knife in' to inspected companies, going by the reponses and the knowledge shown, most if not all companies on this forum do or are at least capable of doing a quality and honest job the way it was intended.

i have and still do have takeovers come my way which were installed by members of both inspectorates, and i am constantly dismayed at the low quality or care of most of them, from easily spotted standard pir's above radiators , ir ray passing through glass counters , and on 2 occassions last year the SAB backplate attached just by 2 masonary nails and back tamper disabled - witnessed by clients and advised to complain - they did not as they now know and use a 'good company' - me!

ok, the last 'fail' may be a little difficult to spot from the ground, but can anyone say an inspector (and if so name him) has ever actually shinned up a ladder to have a look? i bet its rare if at all, then ask yourselves just what would you say was one of the most important parts of any alarm system?

guys stay in the inspectorates, please don't leave in droves, just don't knock those like me who are 'not approved' (i just love that term) according to you and by saying the inspectorate guarentees quality and standards - because it just plain don't, but your reputation should give the client at least half a chance, as mine doe's

regs

alan

[morph]

If an approved company installs two systems every week, for a whole year that

[arfur mo]

If an approved company installs two systems every week, for a whole year that

[morph]

Arfur you really dont have a grasp on what accreditation actually is.

Arfur if every installation was inspected, who would pay the cost? The inspectorate, you as the installer or the client?

Quallity assurance does not mean every system is installed to the same standard in every company. Quallity is the interpretation of what a company sees is the need to meet the requirements of the inspectorates membership rules and the appropriate industry standard.

Using your example above:

Company A:

The bell box with be secured to the front elevation of the property at a hieght of 3.5 meters using two 40mm masonary nails. One to knocked into the wall at a minimum depth of 30mm, the seccond to be knocked in to a minimum depth of 10mm and the head bent at an angle of 45 to the wall.

If the above is in the companies code of practice and they do every job the same, when the jobs are audited, providing they are installed to the above spec then they fully meet the quallity standard that they have been assessed to.

Company B:

The bell box with be secured to the front elevation of the property at a hieght of 3.5 meters using four No10 2inch Stainless steel screws, each screw being screwed in to a minimum depth of 1.5inches.

Again this company has the same statement in their code of practice and they do every job the same, when the jobs are audited, providing they are installed to the above spec then they fully meet the quallity standard that they have been assesssed to.

Neither company is wrong as far as their quallity standards is concerned as they work to their respective quallity manuals, that have been assesed in accordance with the quallity standard.

In reallity we all know one of the above is clearly wrong, but if both have been assesed to their own quallity standards then they in the eyse of the public are the same, clearly they are not though.

You simply cannot say that all companies are the same because they are quallity assured, as they are not.

[arfur mo]

hi alarmgard,

i hope you and others as i am are are enjoying an intellegent if pattionate debate between two opponents.

i'm inserting in blue to help clarity -

Arfur you really dont have a grasp on what accreditation actually is.

i was not sure if you agreed with me or not on 1st read but from above you seem not to be so lets see if we can narrow the gap -:

Arfur if every installation was inspected, who would pay the cost? The inspectorate, you as the installer or the client?

this is not my concern or point, (thats not meant to sound rude to you), i am not in the inspectorate so financing properly it is not an issue for me to worry about. yes it would be costly to do, but again that fact is not any excuse not to be totaly clear.

it is a perception encouraged by the assumption of the client that counts here. when are they going to put it to the test and find out? they cannot. so there is nothing to disuade them from thinking erouniously all systems are inspected or at least liable to be.

Quallity assurance does not mean every system is installed to the same standard in every company. Quallity is the interpretation of what a company sees is the need to meet the requirements of the inspectorates membership rules and the appropriate industry standard.

obviously veriance in quality exists between registered companies (as there is with un-registered), some way under the bar others up to and i hope most over the bar by a long chalk. but QA has a basic level and is set to a layed out minimum standard most of which has been taken, especially in older systems using BS.4737 Pts 1 & 2. so effectively we are concerned with compliance and enforcement to BS.4737 at least, the minumum level if you like.

sporting that 'badge' a client should be able too feel assured he will receive at least that minimum level of standard - there are no implications as to cost mentioned in qualification of that perveyance by those bodies towards the clients.

Using your example above:

Company A:

The bell box with be secured to the front elevation of the property at a hieght of 3.5 meters using two 40mm masonary nails. One to knocked into the wall at a minimum depth of 30mm, the seccond to be knocked in to a minimum depth of 10mm and the head bent at an angle of 45 to the wall.

If the above is in the companies code of practice and they do every job the same, when the jobs are audited, providing than are installed to the above spec then they fully meet the quallity standard that they have been assessed to.

Company B:

The bell box with be secured to the front elevation of the property at a hieght of 3.5 meters using four No10 2inch Stainless steel screws, each screw being screwed in to a minimum depth of 1.5inches.

Again this company has the same statement in their code of practice and they do every job the same, when the jobs are audited, providing they are installed to the above spec then they fully meet the quallity standard that they have been assesssed to.

Neither company is wrong as far as their quallity standards is concerned as they work to their respective quallity manuals, that have been assesed in accordance with the quallity standard.

In reallity we all know one of the above is clearly wrong, but if both have been assesed to their own quallity standards then they in the eyse of the public are the same, clearly they are not though.

it's just not going to fly, the offending masonary nails would not be an aceptable practice just because it's in the method statement. if this method was wrote down surely it would not be seen as complaint by the inspector when inspecting the registered or applicant company, so should never ever arise in the field - but it doe's.

You simply cannot say that all companies are the same because they are quallity assured, as they are not.

this last paragraph i totally agree with, i'd stake my reputation and mother-in-law's false teethe (uhk!) on the fact you are in no way as 'bad' as the company shown in the picture (or would you like those teethe then ).

that is the very big crux of the matter as you know that, i know that - but the client's don't and likely thinks the bodger is every bit as good as you or at least acceptably good to a minimum level as both of you have the badge to proove it how will he know any different? no proper inspection - no proper control, the cost is just not a valid excuse not to provide a intimated sevice of this kind i - so see that as crocodile tears as i do not profess a service i can not supply.

i really don't want to seem like an enbittered old wanna be, after all i'm only a tiny little squeak in a very big auditorium, it's why i have to shout so much and wear a loud jumpers to get noticed.

regs

alan