F C E Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 these forums too are littered with people who would rather question the people asking help, than to actually help them. They are happier blowing their own trumpet and attempting to belittle those seeking help than actually helping them. Are you reading the same topic as me? I'am in cpx wiring..... I've seen people give you decent advice only for you to whinge because you've completey misunderstood the content sorry Mr Happy, i'm just not having that mate, while agreeing most have offered fair advice with best intent, the way some of it was couched, not all of it is palletable and i for one when i see it posted was dismayed. especially when you concider even for an experienced engineer (and many so called have posted with problems in trade - so backing that statement up), programming the CPX and apreciating all it's properties is not so easy to get to grips with on first or even second sight. ok agreed, mainly due to the pi$$ poor 'quick start' up sheet posing as a manual. if you asked a fair question, and did not cotton on would you not be offended by banner size lines? especially when he had previously addressed it - any appology offered? i did not see one. xt600 simply asked for advice, so implying the need for a least some patience from us 'professionals' not blatent insults and slights. xt600 did use a general term in saying 'all' but we knew who he really meant, and so did they. i was taught that being a professional covers all aspects of the job including advice and training, otherwise your just a common tradesman with a few tools and an attitude. regs alan Alan i must say that is 100% the way i was trained why do we strive to be the best in our chosen fields just to get someone who dont know intruder/fire/cctv/access telling us we dont know what were doing/saying All comments in this post are my own views and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer
Guest Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 i'm just not having that mate, while agreeing most have offered fair advice with best intent, the way some of it was couched As i said before.... see posts 2,4,6,12,15,20 & 26 he's had the chance to move forward on it, posted in plain idoit speak
Guest xt600 Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 Thankfuly, there are some reasonable and helpful people on this site who are genuinely helpful hi xt600, most in here are helpful, but ego and self beleif in ones stature and importance tends to get in the way sometimes regs alan It's the same in other forums Alan. I sometimes give advice in electrical forums and these forums too are littered with people who would rather question the people asking help, than to actually help them. They are happier blowing their own trumpet and attempting to belittle those seeking help than actually helping them. I'd rather people asked before doing something potentially dangerous so they can at least be armed with a little knowledge. Electricity is dangerous in the wrong hands! Anyway, thanks to those who have helped me here i am getting somewhere with this alarm now... If questions are not asked how can a soloution be arrived at?..........You give advice in "electrical forums" and yet dont understand resistors nor simple circuits? Isnt that all part of your qualifications if you "advise" on electricals? Yes oldhand, i do understand simple circuits and resistors....as you say it's an integral part of c&g 236. What i dont understand is how and when resistors are used with detectors as i have not messed with alarm systems and their components before. Wiring an alarm system was actually part of one of my exams years ago, but there were no resistors used there. I can follow circuit diagrams easily enough....but when you have instructions with no clear diagrams or explanations, and detectors which have differing contacts, you have to call on those willing top help in fora such as this. Luckily, there are some users here who have been willing to help.
F C E Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 Hey XT600 i hasen to add im not an intruder alarm engineer but from what i understand from what ive read on this site that for your intruder alarm to be conformative with the intruder regs and to satisfy insurance it needs to be fitted by a Recognised Installer to Nacoss or ssaib, so therefore if your house was broken into and there was no certificate to say it conformed to this standard then insurance would not cover the loss Im Not sure if this is 100% correct and i hope if im wrong one of the good fellows in here will point that out regs Adam p.s sorry about poor grammer and spelling All comments in this post are my own views and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer
Guest Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 Differing, so we have N/O and N/C , the difficult bit is? Sorry i didnt read your reply properly................... You mean with C&G you cannot work out a circuit..............how do you check and test? I could go on, however i have no warnings against me and wish to stay that way in here.
Guest Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 Yes oldhand, i do understand simple circuits and resistors....as you say it's an integral part of c&g 236. okay What i dont understand is how and when resistors are used with detectors as i have not messed with alarm systems and their components before. its a simple circuit.... but when you have instructions with no clear diagrams or explanations, and detectors which have differing contacts, you have to call on those willing top help in fora such as this. what do you expect, put the pretty blue wire in terminal A?, best to say away from alarm controls I think...... God help you if you come across a proper set of controls with wards or something... Okay EOL circuit explaned for the novice...... Two resistors in series, one across alarm relay/reed, the other links between alarm + tamper, closed circuit (secure) reads one resistor, detector in alarm read both, tamper is cable shorted or circuit open.......
arfur mo Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 Alan i must say that is 100% the way i was trained why do we strive to be the best in our chosen fields just to get someone who dont know intruder/fire/cctv/access telling us we dont know what were doing/saying hi FCE, (get a shorter handle - please ) please, don't see this as a pop aimed at you, just a general venting of my view -: where is he saying 'we don't know what we are talking about' nothing that i have seen suggests this, yet he has been told so and rudely, to chuck the panel back at screwfix to boot as its a 'professional' panel not for DIY's . being derogatory, patronising or promoting chirlish protectionism has no place within common sense imo. imo it takes a good year to 18 months to train a half decent keen individual, to be called a grade three, 3 - 4 years to be truely competant in installation, and a further 3 years to be a real service engineer, so how is a little help going to drain our vast knowledge base so badly? i agree yes we have trained hard and achieved our position with hard work, but that is not an excuse not to be polite if anyone decides to post. guys that don't want to help with all goodwill and patience - fine your releived as decreed by my Invested King Arfur's Royal Powers. please don't bother, stay in the wings smirking with your self beleif and supposed superiority for company, just leave it up to those who do care and want to help. why do i care?, because a bad alarm anywhere in the country ripples down and affects you , me and all decent companies alike. if xj600 did get a bolshy engineer to instal his system he is highly unlikeley to recommend this route to his freinds and family. so what do you think he thinks of us 'experts' when he gets this sort of treatment? conciderthis too, what do you think he will then recommend to his circle of aquantances - get a pro in - i don't think so why pay to be insullted when you can get it for free in here. xt600 may not have our degree of knowledge perhaps, he walks upright has a simular ammount of digits and certainly has his opinion and a voice to go with it. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
F C E Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 Alan i must say that is 100% the way i was trained why do we strive to be the best in our chosen fields just to get someone who dont know intruder/fire/cctv/access telling us we dont know what were doing/saying hi FCE, (get a shorter handle - please ) where is he saying 'we don't know what we are talking about' nothing that i have seen suggests this, yet he has been told so, and to chuck the panel back at screwfix to boot as its a 'professional' panel . being derogatory, patronising or promoting chirlish protectionism has no place within common sense imo regs aln Alan i like my handle lol to shorten it wud shorten me n being 6'6 i like my height i was talking in general not in particular about XT600 All comments in this post are my own views and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer
Guest Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 but when you have instructions with no clear diagrams or explanations, and detectors which have differing contacts, you have to call on those willing top help in fora such as this. what do you expect, put the pretty blue wire in terminal A?, best to say away from alarm controls I think...... God help you if you come across a proper set of controls with wards or something... Okay EOL circuit explaned for the novice...... Two resistors in series, one across alarm relay/reed, the other links between alarm + tamper, closed circuit (secure) reads one resistor, detector in alarm read both, tamper is cable shorted or circuit open....... By the ides of march, this is magic, how you learn of such things? Does the technology college not guide us along this magical path to the great god OMH. Right thats me out of this pointless debate.
Guest xt600 Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 but when you have instructions with no clear diagrams or explanations, and detectors which have differing contacts, you have to call on those willing top help in fora such as this. what do you expect, put the pretty blue wire in terminal A?, best to say away from alarm controls I think...... God help you if you come across a proper set of controls with wards or something... Okay EOL circuit explaned for the novice...... Two resistors in series, one across alarm relay/reed, the other links between alarm + tamper, closed circuit (secure) reads one resistor, detector in alarm read both, tamper is cable shorted or circuit open....... By the ides of march, this is magic, how you learn of such things? Does the technology college not guide us along this magical path to the great god OMH. Right thats me out of this pointless debate. Hoorahhh!!
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