What Now For Initial Fire And Security ?

[tinnitus]

Chris

Agreed on branch .

As for the ATS, come on mate you have got to be joking.

The ATS is the biggest piece of rubbish ever developed and here's why:-

1. You can't star data lines. You also have to run a seperate 12v as you can't take aux power from expander 12v.

2. The panel can only take two data lines unless you buy a line driver.

3. The remote keypads are dire. They won't mount over a 1 gang electrical box due to hole positions. The cable entrances are the worst in the market. If you have two beldons going into it, you will struggle to terminate both cables in the tiny terminal block.

4. The plastic DGP's are the pits. The metal DGP's have only one 20mm knock out and so if it is full, you can't fit a grommet as there is no room.

5. The outputs on DGP's are a nightmare. You have to cut a lead in half and connector strip cables, there are no terminal blocks for the outputs. The outputs are weak and will just about drive a buzzer and nothing else, even on a neg.

6. The panels don't come with extra RAM as standard, you have to buy extra. Without extra RAM the log is substantially reduced and you have limited user codes. To add RAM requires a defualt.

7. The zone type in the panel change on a daily basis. The worst example is PA. There are currently 3-4 different PA zone types that all do different things. For example one type will trigger the PA output but won't trigger a PA responce via Digi. This zone will not automatically trigger signalling you have to manually program a event flag, very dangerous. When a new PA circuit is designed they don't overite exisiting they make a new one, what's worse they don't delete old circuit types.

8. The ATS has software flaws galore. One of the first which I think has been corrected is the panel required a default if you entered wrong data in comms. Currently if you power the panel up without 4.7K on zones 1 & 2 will result in the panel never sending open and close signals. Another current flaw is the system shows a fault on a spurious zone which stops the system setting. You have to take the zone out of an area and then re-instate it to clear it.

9. When you enter Service mode on the latest version, you are unable to cancel any alarms with user code. You have to exit service, cancel an alarm and then go back into service. The user code won't overide a system in service like the Galaxy, and will stop the panel setting, resulting in a return engineer visit.

10. The panel has no chime. You have to program a zone to event flag which is not operable by the user. ie: It always chimes or it never chimes.

11. Programming user codes is the pits. The user has to program name, program alarm group to tell the system user level, floor group???, Door Group ????? and then program fob or code.

12. The progamming was designed by a computer programmer using flags. Far from straight forward.

13. There is no engineer mode as such. You have to individually inhibit every keypad or expander you want to open. You will still get tamper alarms from the circuits in them.

14. The latest grade3 version will allow the keypad to go blank even though you have faults. If the keypad has gone into # mode the user will need to badge fob 4 times to set. If you are already in menu then you only have to badge 3 times. You can be in zone test emmiting a bleep to say the zone is open and the keypad will still go to sleep. You have to go back in and then go to zone testing to silence the bleep.

15. Titan downloading software is rubbish. In fact it is worse than rubbish.

Thats just off the top of my head, did I miss anything?

Dave

EXCELLENT POST, one for the manufacturers

[PJF]

Im not the worlds biggest ATS fan but in reply to the above,

1. you can star 6m of the data line without term the star. Not far but it may help.

2. The data bus splitter, 1 in 3/4 out is a good bit of kit and its cheap as chips.

3. JB then star (See 1 above)

4. Never, never use the plastic DGPs these are ****, Metal DGps all the time & if you have more cables than holes, drill another in the oposite corner.

5. The outputs are fine for buzz/bell/strobes etc. If you need more the try an 8way clocked relay card. Why cut ribbons ? get the proper output cards.

6. true

7. true

8. Z1 & Z2 sorted now. never heard or come across the spurios zone thing.

9. not sure what you mean ?

10. MACRO, not as bad as it looks. honest

11. true

12. flags=same as links, fairly common.

14. exstend the service timer.

PJF

[stewymac]

i heard today mitie has bought intial security...in march that might be gaurding...looks like want the lot now..

http://business.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1756752006

[vandamme]

Im not the worlds biggest ATS fan but in reply to the above,

1. you can star 6m of the data line without term the star. Not far but it may help.

2. The data bus splitter, 1 in 3/4 out is a good bit of kit and its cheap as chips.

3. JB then star (See 1 above)

4. Never, never use the plastic DGPs these are ****, Metal DGps all the time & if you have more cables than holes, drill another in the oposite corner.

5. The outputs are fine for buzz/bell/strobes etc. If you need more the try an 8way clocked relay card. Why cut ribbons ? get the proper output cards.

6. true

7. true

8. Z1 & Z2 sorted now. never heard or come across the spurios zone thing.

9. not sure what you mean ?

10. MACRO, not as bad as it looks. honest

11. true

12. flags=same as links, fairly common.

14. exstend the service timer.

PJF

In reply,

1. Staring the data line is a big problem on a large site and to be fair 6m is ****.

2. The data bus splitter is fine but it does drop dgp's for no reason causing false alarms

3. True

4. Agree always use the metal dgp's but you should not have to drill new holes to accommodate cables for eight ccts.

5. Agree with outputs but using the clocked relay card you have to fit an additional tampered box, pain in the ass.

6.& 7. Agree

8. Still rears its ugly head.

9. On the new version you can cancel alarms with the engineer code.

10. Macro is ok but to disable the chime you have to link to say a door or switch to disable it, also if you have two doors on chime if one is open the second wont chime untill the macro is reset.

11. & 12. & 13. agree

[Stal.]

i heard today mitie has bought intial security...in march that might be gaurding...looks like want the lot now..

It was the guarding division which cost Mitie

[stewymac]

i heard today mitie has bought intial security...in march that might be gaurding...looks like want the lot now..

It was the guarding division which cost Mitie

[C.Simmons Tech Services]

500 mill...theres only one co that can come up ith that cash..

[/quo

TESCO's???? :!:

Free Clubcard points for Annual Maintenance

[Cubit]

Again, it my well be someone outside the usual suspects.

How about Alex McNutt, ex //.National Installer.// Man. Director. now at Anglian Windows???

They turnover 256mill. so they're twice size of Initial

Just a rumour

[C.Simmons Tech Services]

The facilities guy where i was working 2day reckons PHS have made bid

Rumours,Rumours

[Stal.]

I,ve heard that 5 star security systems of manchester have bought them.

Always wondered what had happened to that dodgy '80s essex band 5 star !!!!!

Can see it now - prancing onto site with distinctive broad shouldered jackets whilst pulling off some Jacksonesque moves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Star