Linking Fire Alarm To Intruder Alarm

[Guest G.J.M]

According to the B.T redcare(fire) account manager i spoke to about this you can use a

redcare which IS connected to a intruder panel just as long the interconnecting cable is fire proof and the fire panel MUST signal fire fault via the ATE(stu) to the A.R.C

It must be okay then BT said so. Are you sure he did not mean both on the same phone line?

one of the fire guy's had a topic about using FP cat5 from where the line enters the building.....

moi.

You were just being a smug git - admit it!

never

[hellzbellz666]

If it's possible put the stu in the fire panel and wire back a signal cable to the intruder alarm panel.

If the stu is fed off the power supply from the fire panel and can signal fault to the fire panel it must meet all criteria?

Obviously if it's a plug on stu of 12volt the stu will need to be replaced by a stand alone 24v stu, but it does solve the problem.

Possibly re route the bt cable to come into the building at the nearest point to the fire panel and drop it in through 20mm tube.

[JTP]

so your putting the intruder alarm stu inside the un tampered, in monitored for power faults etc fire panel?

YOu would also need from an intruder alarm point of view machanically protect the cables from the control panel to the siganalling device

Ideally you should use 2 STUs one for fire and another for intruder...

When I commission systems(intruder), the fire alarm is linked to our STU. The STU is installed inside the intruder panel, and FP cable is used for this connection. Usualy from Fire detection to a boxed relais and from the relais to the STU. Unless the fire engineers leave FP cable for us to connect from the relais to the STU, normal alarm cable has to be used as we don't carry fire alarm cable. from a security point of view, the commissioning of signalling should be carried out by both companies (Fire and Security) together.

Also, my oppinion is that the STU should be installed in a separate box, so it would have it's own PSU and backup battery, tamper connected to the intruder and all the connections according to the regulations.

[james.wilson]

I prefer the stu to be in the panel, espacially under new regs as you would need to have a smart psu to comply. I think this discussion is about wether it complies (IMO it does not) to use the intruder stu or signalling device for the fire. Now that does not mean that we dont do cos we do, but we make the customer aware in writing that it does not comply with 5839. It is ultimatly upto them and it isnt usually our fire system. Most people want t o save money but when you give them a document to sign to say they are aware that it doesnt omply some of them ask for 2 paths. It should have it own path and i believe that ACFO are insisting on it for the new generation of signaling systems.

[Guest G.J.M]

If it's possible put the stu in the fire panel and wire back a signal cable to the intruder alarm panel.

If the stu is fed off the power supply from the fire panel and can signal fault to the fire panel it must meet all criteria?

Obviously if it's a plug on stu of 12volt the stu will need to be replaced by a stand alone 24v stu, but it does solve the problem.

Possibly re route the bt cable to come into the building at the nearest point to the fire panel and drop it in through 20mm tube.

what's the 20mm tube going to do?

It offers no fire protection if that's where you are coming from.

also to BS the cable for the digi should be routed through rooms covered by afd or sprinklers or of very low fire risk.

[luggsey]

Hey people. heres my first post. How do you link a fire alarm to an intruder alarm using a seperate aux relay (from cranford controls??)

Hi Dog, woof! (Translation, "my first post as well!")

Taking account of some of the advice the other guys have offered which is good, can you detail what you are trying to do?

Everyone assumes you want to piggyback a fire signal onto a intruder alarms digi/stu/dualcom/GSM dualcom or whatever.

You may just want remote indication of a fire activation for information only, or activate a voice dialer for information only...

Speaking for myself if connecting a signal device is your aim, on new jobs I always put a signaling device in it's own metel box telecom approved PSU (You must "not" use the fire alarms power to run "any" equipment other the approved fire alarm equipment) next to the main fire alarm panel, usually linked by metal coupler and bushes. I link up the PSU fault output to an interface to the fire panel, if line fault is required link this in the same way. Most monitoring centres allow you to send a daily test signal on older style digi's which is worth doing, if it's a newer style device it will be fully monitored at the reciving station anyway. ( Side note, does anybody still make a panel lke the old Tann/Menvier fire check that allowed you to plug on their own digi, so simple!!) You "must" use the fire relay output of the fire alarm panel to activate your signal device, not a interface. On EN panels the fire relay may also be failsafe and change state upon complete failure of the panel. If the system is to comply with the reams of new regulation (which I think a complete course is required to begin to understand any of it) then you will need to start looking at URN registration, responsible person on site and on and on..........

Let us know more, but hopefully some of this will help of scare you off! Woof.

Anybody looking for a time served sparks 16th/15 year fire commision & service Gent trained vig/sms etc/10 year intruder/some CCTV/ All access stuff engineer? I'll be looking for a job in the North Devon area late this year.