Which Control Panel Can Provide This Facility?

[arfur mo]

hi bugsley999,

i'm just trying to cool the waters a bit here and have reproduced part of your post to assist, when you 1st posted we had no idea of your level of skills or competance so we have to exercie great caution to protect the more confident (rather than competant) from injury or other desaster.

when you posted your early response worded as below it is easily taken as combative (which i'm infamous for on here beleive me) so i posted exsplaining and giving an example of if i asked you how to wire up robots and lathes. please accept i am not digging at you as we have all made the same kind of mistakes especially, in the early days of membership to these excellent forums.

there is a vast wealth of know how on system design ammongst the members, but being technically excellent will not always relate to excellent explanations.

1. Nope not part of the industry.

so the 'tone' of 'Nope!' easily taken as egotistic

2. Been in industrial automation / control engineering for 25 years so know a little bit that's slightly related.

again reinforces an egositic impression, but at this point we now know you not to a wanna be a 'coffee table' enthusiast/inventor, but you knowledge with respect is still not that relevant, no more than my own vast electrionic security related knowledge assembled of over 37 qualifies me to fix washing machines, dish washers or fridges (sone would say not even alarms).

we accept you would be more likely to have greater perhaps complete success in this project than a model train set engineer, as like me i'd know not to poke my fingers on the live wires or operate machinery with safety switches disconnected, but the enthusiast's are not so well informed, hence the high degree of caution.

your own background means i can understand your feel for an integrated solution, but my opinion is it's overkill. lets think this through for a minute, effectively you are using high power lights to be controlled by a (low powered) intruder system. which, to control those lights will need to control the the lighting controller so becoming a bit of a loop.

surely far simpler and cheaper (and so the way i would do it) is to use ordinary central heating type timer contacts to by-pass the lights/bleepers when not needed. if you must have some sort of inteface to the alarm (i personally never recommend external detection to be fitted to intuder alarms - now just watch a debate develop over that statement) then wire to the 24 hour zone via a relay to bridge out so islolate at time required.

by programming the zone as 24 hour which can be switched off by the higher code levels as required, this will achieve your aims and allow for maintenance or garden parties.

the above scheme can be achieved by most intruder panels over

[arfur mo]

Hi Bugsley999,

append this to my previous post - i note you now list your qualifications on #15 doing so a bit earlier would have saved us (and you) a lot of 'fencing' or seeming condescending. there are some who wish walk on water, and then there are far fewer who like me actually do.

I note other comments and have wondered how or if to comment on them without starting a flaming war.

I think it's appropriate to say that I personally found some of the comments a little condecending. I don't profess to be in your business and have no wish to be, but don't assume because I'm not that that makes me or anyone else who you don't know fundamentally incompetent to use your industries equipment as a competent DIY'er.

see below

I hold a degree in electrical and electronic engineering.

I am certified to work on 11kV systems - I think I'm aware of basic electrical safety issues.

you would be surprised perhaps, but most electrical/electrician based engineers just hate our skinny 'cotton' wires with all that choice of colours thrown in.

I install and commission process instrumentation systems at microvolt levels - I think I'm well aware of issues relating to low voltage signalling and how to join two wires together.

we must have a coffee sometime you have an hour os sp to spare

I have no doubt I will run into some issues regarding the programming of the system due to unfamiliarity with the equipment and possibly some lack of knowledge of terminology and I would hope that if I do, this forum or a member on it, professional or otherwise, would be willing to offer assistance to solve my difficulties.

and i'm totally sure we will and with all good will offered (as long as we do not comprommise security issues in general)

Anyhow, I'm planning on having a go, for better or worse.

we will widh you good luck, await your success and your report accompanied by copious pictures for our inspection

Thank you for all your comments and seasons greetings to you all.

Bugsley

you might smile but most alarm engineers have followed behind time served endentured electricians who 'thought' they could instal alarm systems, usually to find all the door contacts and PIR's wired in parellel, 15amp connector blocks i'll stop there as seeing the background often illuminates the foreground.

i'm sure i speak for most in wishing you every success along with seasonal good tidings, many will be logging on over the holiday - if only to get out of the washing up so if you do get stuck with anything please ask.

warmest regs

alan

[bugsley999]

Hi all

I can just imagine the response if I came on with a first post listing my qualifications - hahahaha! Alan - just the thought of it makes me cringe.

I have taken all your comments without offence - there are no troubled waters needed to be calmed and I feel quite welcome in your forum.

I do agree with the principle of caution - you have no way of knowing who you are dealing with and there are without doubt some real numpties out there. Within my own profession, I have come across installations that would make your hair curl and some that have been such that it is fortunate folk have not been killed.

I also practice the principle of KISS - so if I can simplify the installation, I will.

I have a fairly large garden which boundaries onto a small park area and we frequently get undesirables who like to wonder in to see what they can nick in the middle of the night. I'm keen to know when these individuals are lurking around without them knowing I know.

I was rather interested to read in one of the sections here the idea of using a mirror with a beam sensor. Is this a practical solution that is used? I'd never have thought of it. Seems a bit dubious to me.

Regards

Bugsley

Bugsley

[james.wilson]

dubious very dubious. YOu can use reflectors for short range returns but not for corners.

It can be done and is done on industrial safety beams but only ober 20m max. Not garden ranges

You need cables to all corners really. I would also advise against connecting external detection whatever type to a normal intruder alarm. By all means if you set upi custom responses on your gal or premier then fine but dont sound external sounders.

[Cubit]

Hi Andrew

Granted that not all AC hardware/software is available to diy, but I have seen some diy websites selling some fairly comprehensive kit.

Pete

Hi Pete,

No worries. I'm sure you picture the scenario of the phone calls i get whilst driving along - "I've bought your kit and want it to do xyz, tell me how to do it"

The forum is a great place for people to ask questions. It also shows by the range of answers that there is often no one straight solution.

Andrew

[Guest Peter James]

Hi Pete,

No worries. I'm sure you picture the scenario of the phone calls i get whilst driving along - "I've bought your kit and want it to do xyz, tell me how to do it"

The forum is a great place for people to ask questions. It also shows by the range of answers that there is often no one straight solution.

Andrew

I can guess the sort of questions, we asked you if we can do some strange things with your kit in the past.

[arfur mo]

hi Bugsey

Hi all

I can just imagine the response if I came on with a first post listing my qualifications - hahahaha! Alan - just the thought of it makes me cringe.

I have taken all your comments without offence - there are no troubled waters needed to be calmed and I feel quite welcome in your forum.

and that to me and i'd venture most of us is of great relief

I do agree with the principle of caution - you have no way of knowing who you are dealing with and there are without doubt some real numpties out there. Within my own profession, I have come across installations that would make your hair curl and some that have been such that it is fortunate folk have not been killed.

boy we could have some good laughs, ya just just gotta see what some people think are 'safe' alarm systems - ebony wire recovered from transformer coils stapled across yes stapled! window frams with MAINs VOLTAGE passing through it - in a nursery room not even via an mcb/rcd but straight out of a 13 amp fused plug bless 'em.

I also practice the principle of KISS - so if I can simplify the installation, I will.

I have a fairly large garden which boundaries onto a small park area and we frequently get undesirables who like to wonder in to see what they can nick in the middle of the night. I'm keen to know when these individuals are lurking around without them knowing I know.

bear pit - full of very sharp spiikes or transformer wire - wait for screams - sell video to yourtube! (only joking)

I was rather interested to read in one of the sections here the idea of using a mirror with a beam sensor. Is this a practical solution that is used? I'd never have thought of it. Seems a bit dubious to me.

Regards

Bugsley

crikey now you are taking back to my miss-spent youth :'( , in days of horse drawn trams we used to install 'monoptic rays' (who remmembers that term?) for runner to the ir ray which projected a modulated beam via a series or mirrors which could be around corners virticle and horizontal. they were mains operated had an opticl lense for fucus and concentration. if you figure this could be sent over 1000 yards you can see what a pia they were to set up if you had 4 or 5 mirrors in a warehouse and one got knocked.

you can buy short range units from maplins (i think still) normally used for gate/roller shutter safety beams, normally you put a reflector oposite the transimter/receiver unit. problem is birds/ squirrels etc so best you use a dual beam unit they need to transmit from side to side, not bounce the beam back so look for units made by Pulnix or Red Wall.

in your situation especially being external i would not advise bouncing around mirrors as condensation, dew, snow, frost and rain collecting on the mirrors will cause problem's from false alarms how ever well shielded. if the problem is getting cables from sensors to the house Visonic make a weather proof battery powered radio version of a pir to controller for lighting use. if you can cable and don't mind the expense then use GJD kit it really is the Bz Buttons imo.

my honest advice is to invited a couple of installers to quote, give them both the same info (but not each others idea's) then you can see what a realy smart installer can do, never know you might even decide to sit back and let one of them get on with it.

regs

alan

[james.wilson]

pulnix were rebaranded as takex a few years ago now. ANd their reflector active beams are superb (upto 10m)

[arfur mo]

I can guess the sort of questions, we asked you if we can do some strange things with your kit in the past.

yeh been there Peter - what like will it fit sideways up a smallish round dark hole

regs

alan

[arfur mo]

pulnix were rebaranded as takex a few years ago now. ANd their reflector active beams are superb (upto 10m)

i must admit i was not aware of that name change James, but i don't do much peremiter detection because it can be fraught with problem's.

it fascinates me to know why a very well known and respected brand name like the Pulnix Range name is ever dropped, surely as a commercial decission it can't make sense unless absorbed into an even bigger name. i've never heard of 'takex' - and it sounds like a cheap copy of 'take that' found on the 'X factor' show.

regs

alan