arfur mo Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 is this too much info in the public area? just asking regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
arfur mo Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 I don't think so. I am happy with all my posts. so why is it ok to show our 'tricks' in clamping down a fraudster in open public forum, yet we are fussy about engineer codes? regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
Tony Heath Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 My concerns would be; Pharmacy,Stock Rm.(with no internal sensor) and a false ceiling. It sounds like a single story building with possible access from above. Regards Tony Heath.
arfur mo Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 I don't use any tricks. I merely give the available evidence when requested to do so. If that uncovers an attempted fraud, so be it. People shouldn't commit crimes, and any public members who can see this should feel reassured by our attitude .......... unless they have something to hide. hi paul, i'll put another way, we are giving out details of how forensic evidence is gathered, information if for armed with, allows a better chance of avoidence. so here we are openly allowing such information to be discussed and seen by a potential fellon giving a better chance to avoid a prosection, that has naff all to do with wether it is right or wrong to steal, and like i said we are so fussy about engineer codes so i'll accept my level of prudent caution and reservations made as me being just plain daft then in advance? regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
whistle Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 I would never leave a job with comms with any zone programed as omit allow. If the customer wants a zone omitting or disconnecting for any reason then i need a docket signed. SIMPLE AS THAT. Any otherway and you are leaving your self wide open for a big kick up the ass when the S!*t hits the fan with the insurance co.
whistle Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 hi paul,i'll put another way, we are giving out details of how forensic evidence is gathered, information if for armed with, allows a better chance of avoidence. so here we are openly allowing such information to be discussed and seen by a potential fellon giving a better chance to avoid a prosection, that has naff all to do with wether it is right or wrong to steal, and like i said we are so fussy about engineer codes so i'll accept my level of prudent caution and reservations made as me being just plain daft then in advance? regs alan Never heard such cack. We are giving out details of how forensic evidence is gathered ?? Its the log anyone with a code can read it.
norman Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 So then, to summarise.... Never heard shuch cack. Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
arfur mo Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 I would never leave a job with comms with any zone programed as omit allow.If the customer wants a zone omitting or disconnecting for any reason then i need a docket signed. SIMPLE AS THAT. Any otherway and you are leaving your self wide open for a big kick up the ass when the S!*t hits the fan with the insurance co. hi whistle, so you don't ever do a part set system then? which is a block isolate by another name, so would that also be on houses or on offices with a workshop attached - please don't make me laugh so hard you guys. if it was such a 'sin' BS and En panels would not have this facility allowed would they? because the BSIA and now En would jump on it. i have said it would depend on the site and perceived risk, but a door to the ladies toillet where ther is a pir in the passage, hardly gonna dent the security that much, and not as much as leaving the system off. yes we know they should wait for an engineer, just like you never pull away on amber or drive through on it. so lets deal with the real world and it's pressures, weare supposed to do our best to protect our clients in all scenario's and that includs CNS even against themdelves. so lets see the bigger picture and read the facts, 1) the alarm was left off dud to CNS, 2) building vulnerable 3) no alarm 4) so no chance of insurrance either now had that zone be isolated 1) a partial building protecting 2) insurrance would be far happier at least something was on 3) a whole lot better than nothing at all 4) might reduce any calim but at least he could make one 5) if there was a claim but not paid, at least he had an alarm to reduce the overall loss, not sure where i go wrong with my logic here, so as i see it as a 'win', even if the insurrance don't pay out at all asuming some stock left to sell, which there would not be had this guy goy a 'visit'. as all actions are recorded in the log, any abuse of isolate can easily be seen and shown, well on Gardtec anyway. if the owner wants to steal his own stock he need not set the system or steal it before setting, if a member of staff is so minded, they can do exactely the same. if either isolate a vulnerable zone it is recorded in the log, and on many panels isolate is restricted to higher level users only, so a lower ranked user can't use it any way. as always be prudent and get any option ratified by insurrance company, as they will limbo under a toilet door to get out of paying, but where is the loss of security in the above, it is a 'fall back' option for the odd occassion and i see no problems with. take the pir in the stock room scenario being faulty, intruder drops through ceiling and no alarm trips as its isolated, it won't if its not set either. this pir should not be allowed isolate perhaps, but had it been the intruder woud be restricted to that room by any well designed system using confirmed signals, that means when he exits off go the remaining detectors. ideally they can still wait for the service engineer, but have some protection if they can't wait. so that will be a no brainer then - or you wisdomed sages got something else to offer?. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
dommer Posted January 4, 2007 Author Posted January 4, 2007 My concerns would be; Pharmacy,Stock Rm.(with no internal sensor) and a false ceiling. It sounds like a single story building with possible access from above.Regards Tony Heath. Tony, the Stock Room contains no drugs, it is only used for other stock. It is a single story building but no access from above. The debate as to wether the owner of the shop and alarm, should be able to omit a zone is down to you pros. But the way I see it is, if there was a problem with false alarms, any decent alarm company would attend within a few hours, not 6 days. Therefore it would not be neccessary to omitt a zone. But then who owns the alarm, and do they own it on your terms ?
ABAKER Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 If the premises suffers a substantial loss as a result of a burglary, the insurers would want to see evidence that the alarm was working and working correctly and as per the specs.I have on one occasion been requested by the insurers (and with the customers permission) to give such details. Unfortunately for the customer the log showed that he didn't turn the alarm on. When he gave permission to reveal the details he didn't realise what evidence we could gather from the panel. Hello Paul, Surprised to see me here?? Going back slightly earlier to Guard Responses, As you may or may not know I have several hundred domestic & commercial contracts who use us to respond to the Alarm. Cost not being a major problem. Moving on ahead the Insurance company & I have had dealings with several contacting the ARC to inquire if the alarm was set. I refer them to the Installer & in the meantime I contact that particular Installer & info them whats been asked & if they the Installer want I can e-mail over the log etc. Thats ok providing they're signalling Open/Close otherwise its down to the Log from the Panel. Moving on again regarding Zone Omit Automatic on reciept of such a signal we have a duty of care to attempt notify the Site/Keyholder that we've received a Zone omit & the system for want of a better description is now only part set. Regards, Adrian Securi-Guard Limited.
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