Proffesional Install ?

[whistle]

Yes Alan part set and even groups, but that is detailed in the Spec / System Design Proposal that should have been passed by the insurance co before the agreement is signed and returned to us.

Anything other than that will not be done without a docket signed by the customer.

Cover your ass at all times.

You must have had the customer say to you at 3 am in the morrning " Your alarm is gong off and i cant stop it " The system is 10+ years old never seen a maintenance visit yet it is still my alarm ??? Anything to pass the book.

[james.wilson]

hi whistle,

so you don't ever do a part set system then? which is a block isolate by another name, so would that also be on houses or on offices with a workshop attached - please don't make me laugh so hard you guys.

Im gonna make you laugh only use part set on a domestic signalling system can see a point there, commercial i see non, so laugh away arf

if it was such a 'sin' BS and En panels would not have this facility allowed would they? because the BSIA and now En would jump on it. i have said it would depend on the site and perceived risk, but a door to the ladies toillet where ther is a pir in the passage, hardly gonna dent the security that much, and not as much as leaving the system off.

There are lots of options that break the rules that are still in there like double knock. There are also lots of options that can be mis programmed ie 6.4.4 on a tag panel etc. please keep giggling

yes we know they should wait for an engineer, just like you never pull away on amber or drive through on it. so lets deal with the real world and it's pressures, weare supposed to do our best to protect our clients in all scenario's and that includs CNS even against themdelves.

i tried this argument in a recent speeding case when i got flashed but as far as they were concerned rules were rules. I will get you to defend me next time

so lets see the bigger picture and read the facts,

oh joy

1) the alarm was left off dud to CNS,

dud to CNS you using dodgy torpedoes arf?

2) building vulnerable

yes but keyholder or guard responsible

3) no alarm

until fault diagnosed maybe your customers dont lie about causes but ours do

4) so no chance of insurrance either

If they leave the site unprotected then no. Problem is if they part set and get done MY INSURANCE PAYS.. no thanks

now had that zone be isolated

1) a partial building protecting

by a non compliant (insurance wise) intruder alarm and a rule break as an engineer hasnt diagnosed

2) insurrance would be far happier at least something was on

of course arf you know so much about the insurance industry

3) a whole lot better than nothing at all

My insurance again

4) might reduce any calim but at least he could make one

Again loss adjuster would wholehartedly disagree but hey arf knows

5) if there was a claim but not paid, at least he had an alarm to reduce the overall loss,

He can feel safe ion knowledge as the bank takes his house, 'at least the bells went...ahhhhh'

not sure where i go wrong with my logic here, so as i see it as a 'win', even if the insurrance don't pay out at all asuming some stock left to sell, which there would not be had this guy goy a 'visit'.

i still dont get how an alarm can protyect a site that has the keyholder on it, what do these people do during the day????

as all actions are recorded in the log, any abuse of isolate can easily be seen and shown, well on Gardtec anyway.

Assuming you still have a panel on site

if the owner wants to steal his own stock he need not set the system or steal it before setting, if a member of staff is so minded, they can do exactely the same.

yep and then we prove it. if we cant guess what MY INSURANCE PAYS AGAIN

if either isolate a vulnerable zone it is recorded in the log, and on many panels isolate is restricted to higher level users only, so a lower ranked user can't use it any way.

to me a 'manager code' is used by the same customer as a 'cleaner' code both just want to go home and dont really care, remeber arf we are in different markets. Sole traders and small buisineses care but the rest of the employed nation 'it aint my problem noone pays me to be here after 5'

as always be prudent and get any option ratified by insurrance company, as they will limbo under a toilet door to get out of paying, but where is the loss of security in the above, it is a 'fall back' option for the odd occassion and i see no problems with.

this goes against your comments above i though insurance people were flexible types that understand that half an alarm protecting an unattended site is better than an attended site

take the pir in the stock room scenario being faulty, intruder drops through ceiling and no alarm trips as its isolated, it won't if its not set either. this pir should not be allowed isolate perhaps, but had it been the intruder woud be restricted to that room by any well designed system using confirmed signals, that means when he exits off go the remaining detectors.

yes i agree but if its a high risk room and on your en50131 risk assesment documention you would note it as such wouldnt you arf (especially where there is drugs) id suggest 2 sensors

ideally they can still wait for the service engineer, but have some protection if they can't wait.

ideally? no they must wait condition of various things insurance being one of em

so that will be a no brainer then - or you wisdomed sages got something else to offer?.

er.....

regs

alan

James

[arfur mo]

hi whistle,

Yes Alan part set and even groups, but that is detailed in the Spec / System Design Proposal that should have been passed by the insurance co before the agreement is signed and returned to us.

i see it as allowing an indidual zone omit is treated the same way, like you might have bedtime part set, but the a guest is using the spare bedroom so you allow omitting of that area too.

Anything other than that will not be done without a docket signed by the customer.

Cover your ass at all times.

beleive me i do. belt braces, sock garters and string vests

You must have had the customer say to you at 3 am in the morrning " Your alarm is gong off and i cant stop it " The system is 10+ years old never seen a maintenance visit yet it is still my alarm ??? Anything to pass the book.

not nany times as most of my systems go no more than 2 years unless no resonse to letters - as i cant break in to service the alarm. i do get the occasional usually from previous clients who have moved into another pre-alarmed home, then call me out - bless but thats just the nature of the beast.

the one i loved @ 4am had climbed out on to a ladder to his siren as he can't stop it then phones me for advice, you ever tried to shout over an external siren into a phone, my neighbours 10 doors either side though i'd finally lost it.

all my response 'pass on's' keep my number just in case the new company fails to respond, they are frightenned if that company go's bust they have no cover. this never happens but keeps them 'on board' and sometimes they need a bit of coaching or advice when they do more than set or unset the system, perhaps decide to part set, change a code or use chime.

its a very nice part of being a small company as all my clients are freinds.

regs

alan