Part 'p'

[JohnCunningham]

Don't know now.Mulling it over in bed. This area seems a bit grey. You would think that an cable entry into an external light would be an external connection also. Seen many instances when wrong type of cable used and the the lamp is not sealed around the cable due to grommet or gland not able to clamp tight enough to seal. So looking back it makes no sense to notify a light with a bit of cable clipped to the wall compared to straight through the wall and into a light. As I would have thought the main issue would be sealing of the cable into lights.

This might have to stay grey and indervidual installers may have to contact their local council on their interpretation of the rules. Councils seem read things differently all over the country on most building regs, why should this one be different.

[JohnCunningham]

not really a circuit is defined by the breaker NOT the cable coming out of it

unless fixed to "the fabric of the building"

not really a contradiction is it - no joint, no need to notify

which isnt what you said at the start is it?

other schemes ARE available - LOL

LOL - you dont get off that easily

pt1 .A circuit is not defined by the breaker alone. Regs definition is : A circuit is an assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device. So by adding a new conductor it may be interperated by a stickler as adding a new radial circuit to an existing breaker.

Tpt2.he part P pocket guide does not mention fabrics of building, it mentions 1. not a new circuit, 2 passes directly through the wall into the light, 3. extension to a circuit in a special location. So for a start you would have to take power from a non special location.

p3.Agreed joints and external connections are not defined too well. my previous post explains the problems I see with wired up lamps using wrong cables. I think NICEIC interpret this to their advantage on the air of caution.

p4.Maybe not, it is all down to analysing key words and phrases which is open to interpretation, I can see there is a grey area between the NICEIC and the gov regs. So can see there are options. But this is not new NICEIC often have a more strict take in other areas too. We have to follow the regs and NICEIC rules.

p5.Other schemes are available but they do not have the same credibility for a full time contractor. You get no problems with NICEIC or ECA with councils or insurance companies etc. The other 3 are seen in the industry as a bit lightweight. Part P not so much of an issue tho mainly acceptance of test certs etc. My council will only accept NIC or ECA test certs.

p6... and I am not getting away with anything.. I have admitted I can see a difference in what i have seen , which can be intereperated by some as being a grey area. I will continue to notify my security lights, as I can, and it only costs me

[Adi]

part p is government bull bob.

[Guest anguscanplay]

Come on give me a break here... still can't tell me you have exited every cable directly into a lamp since part P arrived... and possibly from what we have both worked out that maybe cables outside are ok to the gov interpretation so long as there are no external connections ( if we agree that the lamp is classed as an internal connection when attached to the wall)

I prefer the IET guide if its all the same, which is where I came in - a light doesnt need notifying unless there are external connections

only took you a day to get to the same conclusion LOL

[JohnCunningham]

I prefer the IET guide if its all the same, which is where I came in - a light doesnt need notifying unless there are external connections

only took you a day to get to the same conclusion LOL

Angus your a funny guy, I don't know how your work mates cope!

Maybe if you had written a bit more than one word or one line smart answers and actually answered any of the questions I posted to you directly, or expanded on your interpretation of the code and backed it up with technical text we may have a reached common ground sooner.. and shock horror I may have agreed with you, checked it out with the NICEIC and changed my notification practice.

This is what a forums about. Some one asks a question, someone disagrees, another comments and then at the end we have enough information or common ground to clear up the issue and have good back ground information. So far you have not contributed any technical answers, debate or ideas to this thread at all. All you have done is one word or one sentence smart answers that does mean anything. When I reply to your one worders that criticise my comments with technical back up or technical discussion you divert to another smart answer. Can you offer any technical advise over one syllable?

I keep an eye on maybe 8 good forums everyday, everything from lockpicking, tax, fire, property, electrical and accountancy. I save thousands of pounds every year from these on good advice and time saved. All activities that improve my businesses. There are people reading these forums who genuinely want answers and it would be helpful not to have 5 pages of 1 syllable forum tennis in order to reach a conclusion.

As far as "Chesterfields number one installer" goes, ever heard of the expression, self praise is no praise.

[arfur mo]

As far as "Chestchipperfields number one installer" goes, ever heard of the expression, self praise is no praise.

pay no heed to Angus and his way, as he just like me enjoys a good debacle

regs

alan

[Guest anguscanplay]

As far as "Chesterfields number one installer" goes, ever heard of the expression, self praise is no praise.

there you go again - assuming it was me who coined the phrase LOL

so my mind works that fast that I can say all I need to say in one line, others (like Arfur) need to talk things over, discuss it back and forth and then have it nailing into there head

stick around, we all (and that definatly includes me) are always learning

Regards

Angus

[Guest anguscanplay]

Angus your a funny guy, I don't know how your work mates cope!

Maybe if you had written a bit more than one word or one line smart answers and actually answered any of the questions I posted to you directly, or expanded on your interpretation of the code and backed it up with technical text we may have a reached common ground sooner.. and shock horror I may have agreed with you, checked it out with the NICEIC and changed my notification practice.

maybe if youd read some of the previous posts before yours you could have saved a lot of time

This is what a forums about. Some one asks a question, someone disagrees, another comments and then at the end we have enough information or common ground to clear up the issue and have good back ground information. So far you have not contributed any technical answers, debate or ideas to this thread at all. All you have done is one word or one sentence smart answers that does mean anything. When I reply to your one worders that criticise my comments with technical back up or technical discussion you divert to another smart answer. Can you offer any technical advise over one syllable?

lifes too short to argue with a " NICEIC " poster boy, you already decided which bed your lying in (seems it might not have been the best "advice" one after all

I keep an eye on maybe 8 good forums everyday, everything from lockpicking, tax, fire, property, electrical and accountancy. I save thousands of pounds every year from these on good advice and time saved. All activities that improve my businesses. There are people reading these forums who genuinely want answers and it would be helpful not to have 5 pages of 1 syllable forum tennis in order to reach a conclusion.

As far as "Chesterfields number one installer" goes, ever heard of the expression, self praise is no praise.

nothing personal John - it never is with me but if your going to make a blanket statement such as "outside lights need notifying.." then your going to have to explain yourself afterwards

[Chorlton]

Another daft question!

If you are attempting to take a spur of the mains box what circuit would it be taken from??

I presume its not the lights as they could blow so must be the sockets?? Still 1.5mm mains cable?

Jesus im quite happy installng alarms! All info is appreciated.

Are you gona be workin' doon south as yer talkin' aboot a' this English part P guff ?

We ain't got that up here ya ken

C.

[JohnCunningham]

nothing personal John - it never is with me but if your going to make a blanket statement such as "outside lights need notifying.." then your going to have to explain yourself afterwards

I thought I did! . I believe with all Regs it all comes down to interpretation and how you read the regs or how the author of the book your reading interprets the regs. Your version, my version anyones version may be chalanged by the powers that be at some point. Who is to say any of the authors of the books we read are getting it right either. Thats why I think a good debate prepares us to back up our reasons for notifying or not notifying if ever we get chalanged. I still think that some people will get caught out with grey issues like this and although unlikely, prosecution and fines (up to 20k) are threatened.

I think this is a good forum. Like the fire alarm stuff particularly and learned alot. So Angus see you next time on the next hot thread, bed is calling.