Whitestone Posted March 26, 2007 Author Posted March 26, 2007 That could be the answer. The panel is not addressable but perhaps they only supply one type of mcp that is common to all their panels. I have asked Alto tech support , they are not addressable but they did not know what the extra circuitry was for! The code is AL4351. This morning they said they were standard units just branded Alto. On Friday they told me that Menvier mcps were not interchangeable with Alto! I have no problem fitting the system I just want to understand the circuitry as well.
esp-protocol Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I have asked Alto tech support , they are not addressable but they did not know what the extra circuitry was for!The code is AL4351. This morning they said they were standard units just branded Alto. On Friday they told me that Menvier mcps were not interchangeable with Alto! I have no problem fitting the system I just want to understand the circuitry as well. Fulleon/Menvier Well the call point on their site looks like the Menvier one. But looking at their catalogue they have got the same part number for 4 wire and 2 wire systems (strange descriptions but never mind). I think Alto are just a distributor like Gardiner, I guess their tech support isn't too clever. Perhaps you have got a 2 wire system call point.... perhaps the whole system your installing is 2 wire and no one's told you !! Think I would be asking some questions if I were you...... Start by reading the manual for the fire alarm panel.....!
ee8mjb Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 The ALTO AL4351 call point is listed as 2-wire in their catalogue, which would indeed suggest to me that you are dealing with a '2-wire' system. Traditional conventional fire alarm systems use 4 wires, 2 for the 'zone' (input - smokes/heats/mcps) and 2 for the 'alarm line' (output - bells or sounders). More recently there has been a rapid increase in the number of conventional systems using 2 wires, the same 2 for the zone and the alarm output. Normally a simple method is used to combine the two, such as reversing the polarity when the panel goes into alarm. Standard 4 wire detectors and call points will not normally work on a 2 wire system, and vice versa. To further complicate things, not all 2 wire systems are compatible with each other either. The installation manual for the panel should list compatible devices which will work with it, and for simplicity you should stick with these, otherwise it's time for that dreaded phrase 'call in a specialist fire alarm company to sort it out for you'! There are plenty of members on this site in your area, I'm sure one of us would be delighted to help out. Hope this is of use. Matt
ee8mjb Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Further thoughts: From the Alto catalogue it would appear that their '2-wire' panel is a rebadged JSB unit in which case most '2-wire' detectors, callpoints and sounders should work with it. The picture of the callpoint you mention is (as already pointed out) a fulleon CX series, but as far as I'm aware fulleon don't make a 2-wire variant of their CX series which would maybe suggest that Alto have used any old picture of a call point rather than the one they're actually trying to sell you. I would always suggest buying fire alarm kit from a specialist, not because I'm trying to sell you anything (although I'd be happy to!) but because the technical support you get is a lot more use. JSB, Menvier and Fulleon are all owned by Cooper but that doesn't always mean their equipment is interchangeable because all three companies were once upon a time (in the good old days, sniff) separate. I have also just noticed that the picture Alto have used for their 'Mains Voltage Heat Detector' is an apollo 24v unit so I'm assuming (hoping) they're not supplying the item pictured! Matt
amateurandy Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I have also just noticed that the picture Alto have used for their 'Mains Voltage Heat Detector' is an apollo 24v unit so I'm assuming (hoping) they're not supplying the item pictured! I think that's what is known on Supermarket food packets as a "Serving Suggestion"
ArkAngel Posted March 27, 2007 Posted March 27, 2007 I think Alto is the brand name for Fire Alarm Equipment supplied by WF wholesalers. It's not necessarily their own manufacture. Going back to the callpoint issue if you've got a 470ohm and a 680ohm resistor put these across your zone terminals and see if it fires the zone. That way you'll know what callpoints to get. I know that most conventional panels will fire with a 470ohm but there are possiblities that some wont, so best to check. Regards If at first you don't succeed, destroy all the evidence that shows you tried!
integrafire Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Some use zener diodes so that when the mcp fires it will still allow enough voltage on the line to light an led on a detector as well.
luggsey Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Some use zener diodes so that when the mcp fires it will still allow enough voltage on the line to light an led on a detector as well. Seen zenners used as EOL but never on a device, interesting. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum
Whitestone Posted March 28, 2007 Author Posted March 28, 2007 Many thanks for all your help. I did buy the panel and mcps from Wades to replace an older system that was wired in pvc twin and earth and old heat detectors. It is installed and working correctly. I have sacrificed an mcp out of curiosity and although it does contain a printed circuit board it ony has a resistor soldered to it. I imagine the board is also used for an addressable system but with more components fitted to it. It is a four wire system with positve going to the common terminal and the two negatives to the 680 terminals. The panel manual is very sparse in its information and only shows a pictorial wiring diagram. Again many thanks for your help it is much appreciated. A very interesting forum! Peter
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