The World Of Ip

[IPAlarms]

From what little I know of Redcare (via this forum and some ex-BT mates) and what I do know (a lot) about internet/broadband you won't catch me using IP signalling on a monitored alarm in the foreseeable future!

I fully understand and respect your position. If your customers will stay loyal to you paying Redcare prices for line supervision - then that is great.

Others will want to keep an open mind on IP monitoring and put themselves in a position to offer alternative solutions when customer demands change. It's not a case of IF domestic customers will disconnect their landline and move to VoIP for making phone calls, it's a case of WHEN. Will Redcare continue to work with just the copper connection ? - I think it might, but am not sure.

[amateurandy]

I fully understand and respect your position. If your customers will stay loyal to you paying Redcare prices for line supervision - then that is great.

You misunderstand, or maybe I didn't make myself clear? I'm not in the alarm business. I was thinking about the alarm in my house!

[amateurandy]

Will Redcare continue to work with just the copper connection ? - I think it might, but am not sure.

It should do, it's just another signal down the line at a different frequency.

Of course when 21CN rolls out seriously there's a different problem, but I'll let the Telecoms experts explain the solution to that.

[IPAlarms]

You misunderstand, or maybe I didn't make myself clear? I'm not in the alarm business. I was thinking about the alarm in my house!

Oops ! - I thought I was posting in a trade forum. Duh

[Eggy]

Here's the problems I have with IP signalling:

1. The beauty and security of our industry is that it is fabulously low-tech. Most of the methods of overcoming alarms involve physical intervention and the skills and techniques for this are not well known. They also normally involve visiting the premises or the public telephone equipment.

2. This would change with IP. Suddenely, you are open to the world. Whilst it is unlikely, you don't have to be broken into by the guy from the estate down the road, you are open to the world. Yes, there is encryption and security, but all it takes is one idiot in his bedroom in Singapore to crack a lax CS, and all of a sudden, he could be selling open/closes on Ebay.

3. With Redcare, you had to rely on BT (Redcare). With digis, it was mostly BT, and sometimes the cable company. Now we all moan about the telephone companies, but believe me, they are Athenian Gods of customer service in comparison to the ISPs. Does anyone actually get good service from an ISP? I know dozens of people that get badly badly let down on their broadband. It gets cut-off, reinstated, oft doesn't work etc etc.

4. Who initially sets up Broadband in a house? Either the subscriber, or very often some local IT geek. Oh yes, the IT industry. The fastest growing and least certified industry in earth. That would be the industry where you gain your qualifications by spending your teenage years in your bedroom messing about with Windows. The mantras of this industry are "This is so slow," and "You need more memory". These are the people that claim that any desktop is badly obselete in 18 months. If the security industry acted like the IT industry, there would be outrage. Can you imagine going back to your customers in 18 months and telling them they needed a new alarm?

And these are the people that we are having to cope with as intermediaries on IP signalling. Client has a problem? The IT guy will come round. He'll fiddle with things, add some RAM, and before you know it the police will be round. Goodbye URN.

5. On that point, how will the signalling equipment interface with the routers? Are there going to be special hardwired routers? Otherwise, it's all RJ45 jacks which can and will be disconnected by trigger happy IT guys / cleaners / housewives / teenagers.

I will protect my customers from the nightmare of IP until this technology is at least 10 years old. Until then, if you lot want to play russian roulette with the IT industry and your customer's security - be my guest.

[IPAlarms]

Hi Eggy,

Your cautious approach to IP is commendable and that is how every installer should be until they fully understand both the benefits and drawbacks. No doubt the pro's and con's will debated on here very soon, so let's not go there for now.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting IP will be the only signalling path, just that it could be a very useful primary path for certain Customers. Any companies that attempt to "supress" that potential benefit from their Customers may lose out in the long run.

I agree with you - let's keep the I.T. guys at arms length. By all means let them educate us where required, but always under the supervision of the security industry. My view is that this is the job of the inspectorates and it seems like they are dragging their feet at best, and more likely hiding their heads in the sand at the prospect of training the whole industry in a subject that they themselves know very little about. The US governing bodies made the exact same mistake and now their Alarm Companies are paying the price. All they can do is watch helplessly as the Telco's, ISP's and opportunist IT companies mop up the mess.

There is still hope for the UK industry if they act NOW. My experience tells me that this won't happen, but hey - don't say I didn't warn them :!:

Your point 4: If the inspectorates (and manufacturers) educate the installers correctly, then there should be no requirement for IT people to be involved.

Your Point 5: This is an obvious question - so why has it not been answered in the industry regulations? Oh yes that's right - IP is very new and it's only been around for a couple of years and it might go away if we ignore it for a bit longer B)

Anyone agree ? disagree ?

[amateurandy]

Anyone agree ? disagree ?

There seems to be an implicit assumption in this thread that IP means using public broadband.

Personally, as my earlier post(s) implied I think that's insane - like Eggy.

But, it doesn't have to does it? After all IP is just a signalling mechanism really (don't that on a technicality please ).

For a start it's easy (commercially) to buy "assured" network links worldwide that will take IP traffic, among other things.

And then you need to connect it up regionally - well isn't BT's 21CN IP-based and I'm sure that will cater for appropriate levels of service.

Finally you need the "last mile". Frankly I don't care how you do that technology-wise, but from my days in corporate IT with heavy involvement in premises, security and alarms, one of the basic rules was - TOTALLY SEPARATE signalling path for the alarm (dedicated phone line, whatever). And that means separate back to some point of assured service - usually the local BT exchange.

Then you need to paint it all red, lock it up, whatever to stop unauthorised people fiddling with it.

So, in summary, I think the technology isn't that important. Organising it to be reliable and secure is.

[Eggy]

The main selling point of IP signalling is that it is free. If you need an additional seperate ADSL service (and by implication another phone line) just for the alarm, you might as well have redcare or a digi.

[amateurandy]

The main selling point of IP signalling is that it is free.

You get what you pay for.....

[Eggy]

Someone please tell me why we need high-tech monitoring.

High-tech, internet software based technology is like writing an open invitation for hacking.

Low tech signalling does the job, and is secure in the sense that the skillset required to defeat it is restricted to relatively few people, and also requires physical intervention at site. As time progresses, and everything else progresses to IP based systems, the security of low-tech systems can only increase.

Yes, this seems backward, but it is logical. It's all a bit Indiana Jones. The older the technology, the fewer people that actually understand it, and can crack it. It's an over-simplification; but it's a bit like a Mummy's Tomb type thing, with all these ancient traps that no-one understands. Your average hacker-wanabees might pool their resources and hack an unwary Central Station, but they won't be sabotaging BT exchanges or ordering duplicate chips anytime soon.

I see no reason whatsoever to need to jump on this IP bandwagon. Our industry knows everything about digis, redcare and Paknet - information shared with very few others. IP is the domain of just about every technophile, geek, teenager and IT professional out there.

In short, as an industry, we would be mad to follow this avenue in the short to medium term.