Replace Existing System

[KeithP]

Blimey, so if it is

[Guest anguscanplay]

Well the reason I am looking at doing it myself is because I got a quote today for

[KeithP]

OK, I reckon I will get a couple of quotes in for a system update before I start.

[Guest anguscanplay]

OK, I reckon I will get a couple of quotes in for a system update before I start.

post again when you have if you need to ask any questions

angus

[KeithP]

Will do, many thanks to everyone who gave me advice tonight, all very helpful, considering it was the first question I have posted on here you were all very friendly, will be back on here once I have got a few quotes in - perhaps I will have a read up on some installation manuals as well to see exactly what I would be faced with it I did go it alone.

Keith

[amateurandy]

perhaps I will have a read up on some installation manuals as well to see exactly what I would be faced with it I did go it alone.

Keith

The manuals won't tell you, especially not how to plan an installation and how to run cables invisibly.

You will be faced with many, many hours of difficult work and you won't know how to do many of the things you need to.

I did my own; I was out of work (redundant) and very short of money (but not short of time) and technically quite (very?) well-educated so was reasonably able to tackle it.

If I was working, with what I know now, I would have paid a good professional to do it.

I'm now working again and can easily earn in a couple of days (after tax) what it would cost - but it took me weeks to do semi-properly as a DIY-er. A pro would definitely have done it better.

BUT - if you really want to do it, don't let me stop you; it's really interesting.

[arfur mo]

i would like to retract the advice i gave in no 6, it is not 100% correct. for which i apologise. no hidding, just bad advice. please look into and follow all relevant regulations.

in truth i think you advice was fair, Angus imo is painting a too black a picture.

16th Edition will only affect the fused spur which i assume is existing, other than that it's a matter of sealing fire pathes, clipping cables at correct intervals, keeping low voltage cables away from mains and hot pipes or supporting it in trunking. if working/installing in wet area's like kitchens or bathrooms then look at Part 'P' closely, be warned it has taxed the best 'regs' brains on this forum.

Building Regs not unless you knock down a supporting wall to wedge the control panel in, or support the roof on the sab. if installing new cables then all that is really of main concern is drilling through joists etc and weakenning the building structure, but tbh unlikely to come into play.

Noise Pollution - was encapsulated in my advise earlier on the external siren and run time.

what KKA was trying to say was there are several standards applied to alarm systems, which are needed to be observed if insurrance or Police response is required. you do not have to observe them, but it is obviously better to do so for later conciderations and also reliabilty issue's.

most that you need to know about will be in the advisory sections of the installation instructions of each component. no one is going to slam you in the clink for not complying with them, just should you have issues later most pro engineers will want to remmedy them if called out by you, so later cost would be a concideration.

regs

alan

[Guest anguscanplay]

in truth i think you advice was fair, Angus imo is painting a too black a picture.

16th Edition will only affect the fused spur which i assume is existing, other than that it's a matter of sealing fire pathes, clipping cables at correct intervals, keeping low voltage cables away from mains and hot pipes or supporting it in trunking. if working/installing in wet area's like kitchens or bathrooms then look at Part 'P' closely, be warned it has taxed the best 'regs' brains on this forum.

Building Regs not unless you knock down a supporting wall to wedge the control panel in, or support the roof on the sab. if installing new cables then all that is really of main concern is drilling through joists etc and weakenning the building structure, but tbh unlikely to come into play.

Noise Pollution - was encapsulated in my advise earlier on the external siren and run time.

what KKA was trying to say was there are several standards applied to alarm systems, which are needed to be observed if insurrance or Police response is required. you do not have to observe them, but it is obviously better to do so for later conciderations and also reliabilty issue's.

most that you need to know about will be in the advisory sections of the installation instructions of each component. no one is going to slam you in the clink for not complying with them, just should you have issues later most pro engineers will want to remmedy them if called out by you, so later cost would be a concideration.

regs

alan

first day first lesson at college quote

" statutary electrical requirments - the fact you dont know that they exist is no defence in court if someone gets killled"

often people like ourselves who have been installing for far too long now loose the distinction between regulations, standards and good working practise the good working practise is the black art that seperates us from the diy`er the standards are the minimum requirments for an alarm system but the regulations are the legal requirments for the work to be undertaken

as i said the list was an example and there would be several more - what about the DDA - which we as proffesionalls incorperate into our work without realising that what has evolved into good working practise began as a regulation

now lets suppose for example that keith has a good time - gets his system up and working and decides to help his neighbour with his old alarm - suddenly the supply of goods and services act comes into view and just to smash another myth it applies equally whever money exchanges hands or not er glad i wasnt the one to tell him there are no regs that apply to diy work

[arfur mo]

first day first lesson at college quote

" statutary electrical requirments - the fact you dont know that they exist is no defence in court if someone gets killled"

often people like ourselves who have been installing for far too long now loose the distinction between regulations, standards and good working practise the good working practise is the black art that seperates us from the diy`er the standards are the minimum requirments for an alarm system but the regulations are the legal requirments for the work to be undertaken

as i said the list was an example and there would be several more - what about the DDA - which we as proffesionalls incorperate into our work without realising that what has evolved into good working practise began as a regulation

now lets suppose for example that keith has a good time - gets his system up and working and decides to help his neighbour with his old alarm - suddenly the supply of goods and services act comes into view and just to smash another myth it applies equally whever money exchanges hands or not er glad i wasnt the one to tell him there are no regs that apply to diy work

this is a DIY installer as such is not bound bound by most of what concerns 'us' as a practicing specialist/buisness, just like anyone changing the brakes on a personal car as an untrained mechanic, there is nothing legally stopping anyone is there as stupid as it may be to allow a 'numb nutts' to do it.

there are regulations governing buisnesses and professionals, which i'm saying (and your not) as a DIY person you do not have to comply. obvioulsy it is better to incorporate safe and good proffesional practice's (like the use of axle stands and not just the unsuported side jack).

all that said, the diy can use any old bricks or plastic milk crates without any legal ramifications, and is effectively exactely what i have wrote.

DDA? where on earth will that apply to this DIY situation, perhaps we should all worry about over flying private aircart when suggesting radio kit to be used.

i keep the advice to be within the scenario concerned, or we will be advising tripled protection to be used on a smple garden shed. we are best to advise on the security aspects, regarding building regs etc. most of us have some knowledge but are not full on experts, so advice in these area's should be from those who are.

regs

alan

[Cubit]

this is a DIY installer as such is not bound bound by most of what concerns 'us' as a practicing specialist/buisness, just like anyone changing the brakes on a personal car as an untrained mechanic, there is nothing legally stopping anyone is there as stupid as it may be to allow a 'numb nutts' to do it.

there are regulations governing buisnesses and professionals, which i'm saying (and your not) as a DIY person you do not have to comply. obvioulsy it is better to incorporate safe and good proffesional practice's (like the use of axle stands and not just the unsuported side jack).

all that said, the diy can use any old bricks or plastic milk crates without any legal ramifications, and is effectively exactely what i have wrote.

DDA? where on earth will that apply to this DIY situation, perhaps we should all worry about over flying private aircart when suggesting radio kit to be used.

i keep the advice to be within the scenario concerned, or we will be advising tripled protection to be used on a smple garden shed. we are best to advise on the security aspects, regarding building regs etc. most of us have some knowledge but are not full on experts, so advice in these area's should be from those who are.

regs

alan

As a DIY'er the laws and regulations apply equally.

Kevin stated:

6 - as i diyer you do not have to follow the regs on your own property, but think about this, they are best practise, and there for a reason.

This is, as Angus pointed, not technically correct and could be misinterpreted. Both Kevin and Angus hihlighted the best practice and related issues.

Reference to DDA i take to be an example of the sort of regs people can contravene without knowing.

Ignorance of obscure rules and regs is no defence when up before the beak for negligence.

The IEE regs at one time were not law - but were treated as such by the relevant legal peeps. Once they became a British Standard then they got official legal status.

Always a grey area with rules and regs but surely we can't makes statements saying DIYrs are not compelled to follow them??

Andrew