Help Needed Im New To This!

[eoghanfla]

Hi All,

I'm in Ireland and have been in IT for over 10 years and builing for 2, I configure PC's, servers, networks install cat5e, cat6 and fibre and all that goes along with computers and IT. Ive always had an interest in CCTV but recently 2 cliets of mine asked me to put in a system for them. Both had similar needs though wiring was an issue with one. I chose DVR systems using Genie 539tvl domes for the internals and vandal ones for outside, I also combined cat5e and bnc as it meant I ran much fewer cables and had cdp (central distribution points) where i installed Power distribution running power to all cams and termintaing the cat5e and bnc UTP distribitures.. Im also using a 2.4Ghz wi-fi video sender to access a tough spot. These are my first two systems and they were tricky runs as they are restaurants and casios. I have 3 questions for ye all..

computar c-mpdvr 250gb 8 ch

genie gd5351vai 1/3 cam 530tvl varifocal DNR cams

genie 8 port 12vdc power supply 4amp

Possibly a swan next genie cam for outside .001 lux should do

there are two sites and a few extra cams, so its 2 x 8ch dvr, 16 cams etc

Firstly does my system above sound like it a good set-up? Will my images be clear enough using these cams, are genie a good brand????

Secondly, will i have difficulty in this business or is it pretty practical? I have years of IT behind me and computers dont scare me, should i do a course or develop slowly?

And thirdly, is IP cameras the next big thing or are they just something for people with deep pockets. I need to find a niche in the market where I am because there are a few suppliers of cctv here.

Thanks for reading and ye're time.

Eoghan

ps if its ok im may ask ye're advice on installer equipment next

time

[Guest Dave the alarm man]

I'm in Ireland and have been in IT for over 10 years

Does CCTV fail under the scope of private security services act ??

[eoghanfla]

Does CCTV fail under the scope of private security services act ??

Not yet, its in the process but the paperwork isnt finalized by the governement yet, and when it is i just apply like every other supplier..

Eoghan

[ian.cant]

Hi All,

I'm in Ireland and have been in IT for over 10 years and builing for 2, I configure PC's, servers, networks install cat5e, cat6 and fibre and all that goes along with computers and IT. Ive always had an interest in CCTV but recently 2 cliets of mine asked me to put in a system for them. Both had similar needs though wiring was an issue with one. I chose DVR systems using Genie 539tvl domes for the internals and vandal ones for outside, I also combined cat5e and bnc as it meant I ran much fewer cables and had cdp (central distribution points) where i installed Power distribution running power to all cams and termintaing the cat5e and bnc UTP distribitures.. Im also using a 2.4Ghz wi-fi video sender to access a tough spot. These are my first two systems and they were tricky runs as they are restaurants and casios. I have 3 questions for ye all..

computar c-mpdvr 250gb 8 ch

genie gd5351vai 1/3 cam 530tvl varifocal DNR cams

genie 8 port 12vdc power supply 4amp

Possibly a swan next genie cam for outside .001 lux should do

there are two sites and a few extra cams, so its 2 x 8ch dvr, 16 cams etc

Firstly does my system above sound like it a good set-up? Will my images be clear enough using these cams, are genie a good brand????

Secondly, will i have difficulty in this business or is it pretty practical? I have years of IT behind me and computers dont scare me, should i do a course or develop slowly?

And thirdly, is IP cameras the next big thing or are they just something for people with deep pockets. I need to find a niche in the market where I am because there are a few suppliers of cctv here.

Thanks for reading and ye're time.

Eoghan

ps if its ok im may ask ye're advice on installer equipment next

time

If your fitting 8 cameras per site then its silly to fit an 8 way DVR, get a 16 way DVR, theres not much difference in price usually.

Genie is an ok brand, nothing flash, does what it says on the tin bracket.

You would be wise to future proof the/any installation, 250gb hard drives are too small, minimum of 500gb, 1000gb would be better.

A wireless tx is probably going to cause more grief than its worth, always cable unless its an absolute impossibility. Remember if a radio link goes down briefly from time to time nobody really notices but if the picture goes down they probably will notice.

Will you have difficulty in this business, IMHO yes, your already having trouble from what i can see but the real question is will you learn from your mistakes quick enough. Where you will have trouble imho is on the practical side of the installation, running cables fitting the cameras, inside will be no trouble, outside is going to be a whole new ball game to you.

When it goes pear shaped is also going to be a problem, expect a sharp and probably expensive learning curve. Most people can be trained to install, when it isnt working is when the real experience is invaluable and it could be where you will lose the most time and money.

[TSS]

and don't put power down cat 5 - (unless you use a balun that is specifically designed to take power, video and data)

Use Nitek or NVT high quality Baluns - I have used many different (cheaper) baluns and have had problems until we switched to Nitek (VB43ATF video & data up to 350m, power 225m)

avoid water filled ducts when using cat5 as it affects the capacatance of the cable.

[ilkie]

Deep breath and here goes:-

Do not try to select equipment and hope this fits the job. This is too common in this industry and nearly all ways ends up with a disappointed client (especially when he needs the system!). Understand how to establish the operational requirement for each item of equipment (information is freely available on the Home Office HOSDB site). Document and agree this with the client before you select equipment.

Understand the requirements for delivery of digital evidence including time synchronisation and bulk download (try the ACPO site)

Learn the three items of legislation that regulate CCTV ie:- Data Protection Act, RIPA, and Human Rights Act all to ensure that any system installed is fully compliant.

Purchase the correct test equipment to allow you to commission and problem solve systems.

And finally set in place a training program, you would surprised how many engineers who install CCTV with no formal training in the subject!

As for IP, it has it's place (building protection mainly) but ensure that the client is aware of of the limited lifespan of the equipment. (some end users think that because it's digital it will last for ever)

Hope this helps

Ilkie

[eoghanfla]

If your fitting 8 cameras per site then its silly to fit an 8 way DVR, get a 16 way DVR, theres not much difference in price usually.

Genie is an ok brand, nothing flash, does what it says on the tin bracket.

You would be wise to future proof the/any installation, 250gb hard drives are too small, minimum of 500gb, 1000gb would be better.

A wireless tx is probably going to cause more grief than its worth, always cable unless its an absolute impossibility. Remember if a radio link goes down briefly from time to time nobody really notices but if the picture goes down they probably will notice.

Will you have difficulty in this business, IMHO yes, your already having trouble from what i can see but the real question is will you learn from your mistakes quick enough. Where you will have trouble imho is on the practical side of the installation, running cables fitting the cameras, inside will be no trouble, outside is going to be a whole new ball game to you.

When it goes pear shaped is also going to be a problem, expect a sharp and probably expensive learning curve. Most people can be trained to install, when it isnt working is when the real experience is invaluable and it could be where you will lose the most time and money.

Hi again

Thanks for all ye're good advice, just to respond to a few points. Have explained to my clients about the 8 vs 16 dvr all i can do is recommend, but both seem to want to use 8 ch as this is being replaced because of a major fire in the 2 building so theres a limited budget. there is a 400 euro price difference between 250gb and 500gb again i have advised on the time recording possiblitlities. Wireless is my only opton for one cam as its in place the is imposible to get a cable without doing some drastic work but as i say im in IT so know what things like wireless are like. Ive been pulling cables and configuring networks for a decade inside n out so i dont think im going to have trouble there plus my i have a sparky who can do cable runs im not into. There are very few customers like IT customers, if a computer system fails or goes down a company can lose thousands per hour, and i have no doubt i can do all the cabling, my main concern is the brand and the quality and the availability. I only use krone network equipment, it costs twice as much as anyone else but it has Never let me down. Maybe its my options here but I find the equipment very expensive. For example a genie 250gb DVR is

[eoghanfla]

Deep breath and here goes:-

Do not try to select equipment and hope this fits the job. This is too common in this industry and nearly all ways ends up with a disappointed client (especially when he needs the system!). Understand how to establish the operational requirement for each item of equipment (information is freely available on the Home Office HOSDB site). Document and agree this with the client before you select equipment.

Understand the requirements for delivery of digital evidence including time synchronisation and bulk download (try the ACPO site)

Learn the three items of legislation that regulate CCTV ie:- Data Protection Act, RIPA, and Human Rights Act all to ensure that any system installed is fully compliant.

Purchase the correct test equipment to allow you to commission and problem solve systems.

And finally set in place a training program, you would surprised how many engineers who install CCTV with no formal training in the subject!

As for IP, it has it's place (building protection mainly) but ensure that the client is aware of of the limited lifespan of the equipment. (some end users think that because it's digital it will last for ever)

Hope this helps

Ilkie

Thanks dude, yes ur advice is also very helpful, all ye're advice was very good thanks. I think IT system are similar to cctv, they cost an awful lot and clients dont always understand what they do, what they need or what they can cost to maintain. I will will consider this in my approach. I have read up on the data protection and the groups involved in the standards and licencing of cctv in Ireland. To be honest its all a bit sktchy at the moment and it is an unlicenced sector but i will be adhering to any requirments or guidlines they have.

Can i ask you, what is the wishlist equipment and installer would need to test and problem solve??? I need to do this with Cat5 and fibre networks but its a different system for cctv.. What would ye all buy if ye were given the funds??

Thanks again

Eoghan

[Guest anguscanplay]

Thanks dude, yes ur advice is also very helpful, all ye're advice was very good thanks. I think IT system are similar to cctv, they cost an awful lot and clients dont always understand what they do, what they need or what they can cost to maintain. I will will consider this in my approach. I have read up on the data protection and the groups involved in the standards and licencing of cctv in Ireland. To be honest its all a bit sktchy at the moment and it is an unlicenced sector but i will be adhering to any requirments or guidlines they have.

Can i ask you, what is the wishlist equipment and installer would need to test and problem solve??? I need to do this with Cat5 and fibre networks but its a different system for cctv.. What would ye all buy if ye were given the funds??

Thanks again

Eoghan

hi

could you not " subb " out the next few installs to another firm and go work alongside them till you get a grasp of the basics ? thats what i would do if i wanted to get into IT

[eoghanfla]

hi

could you not " subb " out the next few installs to another firm and go work alongside them till you get a grasp of the basics ? thats what i would do if i wanted to get into IT

ya that may be an option though i wouldnt be able to use anyone in my locality as they wouldnt like the idea of me getting into this game..!! Def worth a look though.