Guest anguscanplay Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 hi all,i wonder if we do not digress to far to much here? albeit with the best intentions but in another thread an o/p asked what vans do we recommend? should we jump in and say it needs commercial insurance, a drivers license road fund license blah blah before we suggest a make and model? i think it's enough to say they need to consider if part 'p' is relevant and to take proper advice advice based on a site visit, but then lets get on and address the question originally asked perhaps? i'm not advocating ignoring the legalities, just the o/p is an adult and so old enough to check this out for themselves, we are mainly security engineers not moral guardians, so lets leave the church deal with that aspect regs alan eh the o/p asked for advise so we give him advise , now you seem to be contradicting yourself about notifying work ( polish sparks bad - uk sparks good is it ? ) the original question was not the kind of question a " qualified " engineer should / would / could ask , as i replied it doesnt really matter which panel does it - but any attemps to guide the newguy through into the real world and away from his college theory seem to be falling on deaf ears. Best advise he will get this year - go and stand at the wholesalers counter for a day and listen to the old gits moaning - we really have been doing all this from before you were born !
arfur mo Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 ehthe o/p asked for advise so we give him advise , now you seem to be contradicting yourself about notifying work ( polish sparks bad - uk sparks good is it ? ) the original question was not the kind of question a " qualified " engineer should / would / could ask , as i replied it doesnt really matter which panel does it - but any attemps to guide the newguy through into the real world and away from his college theory seem to be falling on deaf ears. Best advise he will get this year - go and stand at the wholesalers counter for a day and listen to the old gits moaning - we really have been doing all this from before you were born ! hi angus, no contradiction, just adapt the advice to this o/p to the question a bit closer is what i ask. i'm aware of part 'p' the ple is not and has been informed with not a care shown. he has been told not to pull any power cables through my routes or i will cut them out, but thats me and my methods attitude based on my experience and enforced with sheer bloody mindedness. the o/p openly states he is newly qualified as an alarm installer (note, not an it wiz for a refreshing change), ok we don't know to what engineer sxkill level like grade 3, 2 or even 1. i know some big companies who give 14 days 'training' on the job and read a manual and your qualified grade 2 = unsupervised he obviously lack's experience, so lets cut him some slack as if he has been trained properly he will be aware of the part p worries. and 'son' although i'm possibly now the oldest surviving member of the trade counter 'old git's' club' i do remember i was not born with a full catalog of alarm experience to fall back on, this o/p has sensibly asked advice from more experienced members, which i'd rather commend than he blast in system for his client which may not do the job the best or at all, and giving the trade a bad name. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
Guest anguscanplay Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 hi angus,no contradiction, just adapt the advice to this o/p to the question a bit closer is what i ask. i'm aware of part 'p' the ple is not and has been informed with not a care shown. he has been told not to pull any power cables through my routes or i will cut them out, but thats me and my methods attitude based on my experience and enforced with sheer bloody mindedness. the o/p openly states he is newly qualified as an alarm installer (note, not an it wiz for a refreshing change), ok we don't know to what engineer sxkill level like grade 3, 2 or even 1. i know some big companies who give 14 days 'training' on the job and read a manual and your qualified grade 2 = unsupervised he obviously lack's experience, so lets cut him some slack as if he has been trained properly he will be aware of the part p worries. and 'son' although i'm possibly now the oldest surviving member of the trade counter 'old git's' club' i do remember i was not born with a full catalog of alarm experience to fall back on, this o/p has sensibly asked advice from more experienced members, which i'd rather commend than he blast in system for his client which may not do the job the best or at all, and giving the trade a bad name. regs alan behave old man lol - any panel would do and the o/p has already decided he is going to ignore the regs on the mains side otherwise he wouldnt be quizzing if part p applies - which you yourself told a poster last week that it most definattly does none meant Angus
arfur mo Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 behave old man lol - any panel would do and the o/p has already decided he is going to ignore the regs on the mains side otherwise he wouldnt be quizzing if part p applies - which you yourself told a poster last week that it most definattly does none meant Angus might be a 'sticky' about part 'p' in the public area would save a lot of repetitiously typed advice, could do that for batteries too, as you just know how i hate repetition i don't think the o/p can be fairly accused of ignoring the advice given or going his own way simply for asking for further verification from others. this is a discussion forum after all, and others reading the thread will may have learn't something too - maybe? . tbh this situation has to be viewed by a qualified person to make an accurate assessment, something i'd obviously urge the o/p to have done on pure safety grounds, but 'us' having made an advisory reference and dispensed our responsibility, should we then really continue to hammer it into the ground? like i said we are not the moral wing of righteous vengeance for the law abiding nation, just guys experienced in intruder systems to varying degree's of ability. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
amateurandy Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 tbh this situation has to be viewed by a qualified person to make an accurate assessment, something i'd obviously urge the o/p to have done on pure safety grounds, I thought he said he went to see the local BCO who said Part P didn't apply...................
Guest anguscanplay Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I thought he said he went to see the local BCO who said Part P didn't apply................... and i went to see mine who said it does - unfortunatly the BCO`s are less informed than we are imo - look at the screwfix forum for more examples of opposite advise from them taking the o/p argument about connected to the original fuseboard within the house is okay then no outside work would ever need to be notified would it ?
amateurandy Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 and i went to see mine who said it does - So, they're inconsistent - hardly a surprise given the various comments here in recent months on Part P. But the OP has to get the approval of his local authority not yours
arfur mo Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I thought he said he went to see the local BCO who said Part P didn't apply................... the point i was trying to make was, not he said you said but the BCO (or qualified person) needs to view the site in person to be accurate, advice based on second hand info is usually incorrect and fraught with errors or lacking enough detail for a true assessment. either way it's now been flogged to death so the o/p should have the message loud and clear, perhaps we could we move on please to advise on caution due to the dangers of asbestos on older buildings? regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
Guest anguscanplay Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 the point i was trying to make was, not he said you said but the BCO (or qualified person) needs to view the site in person to be accurate, advice based on second hand info is usually incorrect and fraught with errors or lacking enough detail for a true assessment.either way it's now been flogged to death so the o/p should have the message loud and clear, perhaps we could we move on please to advise on caution due to the dangers of asbestos on older buildings? regs alan if its anywhere near us it`ll be flooded too lol
Guest Dave the alarm man Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 perhaps we could we move on please to advise on caution due to the dangers of asbestos on older buildings? how old is old???? 80's artex offend contains it
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