Proximity Keys

[magpye]

Excuse me? What do you mean?

The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO)

www.acpo.police.uk

[Guest anguscanplay]

So all (new) alarm systems installed in the UK need to have some sort of wireless keyfob in order to arm/disarm the system?

the idea was that the action of legitimatly entering the premises " unset " the alarm so only the ones that want police responce and wont / cannot accept an electronic lock need a fob ( its a way round the rules see ) point of order there Breff you would still need to disable comf on entry if your only using the lock as entry start

Angus ( its a step backwards for sure )

[tinnitus]

Hi there.

There are a lot of panels/rkp's out there that accept arming/disarming by using a token/proximity key. How can that be safe? I mean, you could get stolen, burglars may force you into giving them the key, etc. How can that be safe? Isn't a standard PIN more effective and less prone to problems?

Best regards

i seem to be the only one who thinks this is a good idea. give one person the pin and you will never know how many people now have it, infact you will never know if anyone has it till its too late. lose the fob and just delete it, instantly. if you lose/forget the fob, the rkp still accepts the pin after the entry timer times out. whats the problem?

infact we have started fitting maglocks ( as requested) and then having every input as intruder. no entry timer.

[Guest anguscanplay]

i seem to be the only one who thinks this is a good idea. give one person the pin and you will never know how many people now have it, infact you will never know if anyone has it till its too late. lose the fob and just delete it, instantly. if you lose/forget the fob, the rkp still accepts the pin after the entry timer times out. whats the problem?

infact we have started fitting maglocks ( as requested) and then having every input as intruder. no entry timer.

we just dont let em use / know the pin - one guy on site knows it but its also locked out during alarm too , going to be a problem one day when the reader fails imo

[arfur mo]

So all (new) alarm systems installed in the UK need to have some sort of wireless keyfob in order to arm/disarm the system?

no, only if connected to an Alarm Receiving Center (ARC) which then informs the Police of an activation, but 'bells only' there is no requirement.

there a re plus and minus points for fobs, codes and keys

a bit of history for you -:

after toggle switches (not considered too secure ) we moved on to panels with Key's, these keys are fiddly especially for the visually/physically impaired, the aged or arthritic, as well as being seen as heinous to a scared key holder. they are also comparatively expensive and time consuming to replace if a set is lost, or staff member leaves under a cloud so clients avoid the cost and over time security is reduced. also people would enter houses only having the front door key but not have an alarm key resulting in false alarms.

when the keypad appeared, having a code as long as you knew it you could use the alarm, but you can be shoulder surfed or the code given to others without you knowledge or consent, and if people are lax about changing the code regularly or when people leave this has an obvious security implications.

then the fob/token appeared, this allows better and far easier control of the system in many aspects and also the admin of the system. if the keys are lost with the fob, it can be 'killed' and a new spare active fob issued within seconds of being notified, (try that with keys or codes).

if you are faced with an armed robber wanting your house or shop effects, yes they can take your fob and imo you would be daft to resist but most would and get a good kicking (or worse) for their bravery. by the same means they can just as easily force you to give up your code or key.

if you require higher security sites we better protection protocols to combat this, but if i told about them here then i'd have to kill you and take your fob/key

regs

alan

[tinnitus]

we just dont let em use / know the pin - one guy on site knows it but its also locked out during alarm too , going to be a problem one day when the reader fails imo

im not sure i get you angus. the owner must have the master code to change settings/users/allow engineer..... etc. maybe not every panel but galaxy g3 and euromeridian spring to mind. not every panel will allow a fob to programed as master. did i misinterprit you?

[Guest anguscanplay]

im not sure i get you angus. the owner must have the master code to change settings/users/allow engineer..... etc. maybe not every panel but galaxy g3 and euromeridian spring to mind. not every panel will allow a fob to programed as master. did i misinterprit you?

ha a success for the humble gardtec lol fobs can have master authority

[tinnitus]

ha a success for the humble gardtec lol fobs can have master authority

funny you should say that. ever had two rkp's fitted and had to set up the users fobs on both keypads separately? i have only fitted a handful of these and its a love/hate relationship. and while i think about it, when setting up the fob, is it just a case of offering the fob up when asked to enter new pin? I'm thinking i have done this wrong before. don't mind hanging myself out to dry here if i have fkd up.

what do you do with other "less versatile"(lol) panels?

[arfur mo]

fob, the rkp still accepts the pin after the entry timer times out. whats the problem?

infact we have started fitting maglocks ( as requested) and then having every input as intruder. no entry timer.

i pondered the maglocks, but the safety breakglass required for emergency exit in a fire never looks good to the eye, the other issue with them is if the alarm fails for what ever reason they can't get back in, this poses the real risk of an attack.

mortise locks for those reason's above and having fitted them for many years when working for companies are the preferred option for me, but they too can cause several problems like when the door drops, the brass guide on the chubb lock in the key chamber flicks round, or the case plate comes loose and unreliable micro switches.

if they loose their keys and have umpteen key-holders it's a very expensive business getting all the keys cut and out to the right people and the lock wards swapped over promptly, and someone always gets missed out .

it just all means nothings perfect matey's

regs

alan

[tinnitus]

i pondered the maglocks, but the safety breakglass required for emergency exit in a fire never looks good to the eye, the other issue with them is if the alarm fails for what ever reason they can't get back in, this poses the real risk of an attack.

mortise locks for those reason's above and having fitted them for many years when working for companies are the preferred option for me, but they too can cause several problems like when the door drops, the brass guide on the chubb lock in the key chamber flicks round, or the case plate comes loose and unreliable micro switches.

if they loose their keys and have umpteen key-holders it's a very expensive business getting all the keys cut and out to the right people and the lock wards swapped over promptly, and someone always gets missed out .

it just all means nothings perfect matey's

regs

alan

we only fit them in petrol stations, so no one is on site when its set, this is why every input is intruder. this is why we don't need a break glass. its not a huge maglock, just enough to remind them the system is still set. its not used to secure the door. TBH i think it offers much better security, no detectors on the entry route for a start so conf signaling is almost instant. we also fit bandits and false alarms were using up a lot of the contents. i cant see any problems with this system.