Installing at the build stage

[Guest dale]

Also Dave Housty asked the question and Ian was just fielding his opinion.

[ian.cant]

Thanks for the defence dale!

As it happens i dont fit alarms as a rule anyway but in my previous employment we did new build housing estates.

I have done my share of these and they're easy to install. Cheap? Yes but thats down to the builders, they decide what the spec is and the price per house is usually way under £300 and i would guess nearer £200. This can be achieved to a very good standard of installation because of the way the houses are built. A better installation than you could do after the house was completed!

And i stand by my comments. Clearly those who think a 1st fix on a new build housing estate will take longer than 2 hours has never done one and so cant really comment about something they clearly have no experience of.

In my experience 2 hours is a maximum time. Dont forget they're built like a production line now and generally every trade knows whats going where and when.

The joist dont need drilling, you knock a piece out with a hammer so you route is where you want it and away from the plummers pipes or the sparks cables.

The cables are left where you want them by the boarders, usually they know the routine. Any clipping is usually minimum anyway, the bell cable will need clipping up the wall from the floor before the dot and dab boards go on.

You cant use conduit!

The spur normally would be located by the panel and is usually provided by the sparks, you just drop a length of flex into it.

I doubt most installers make much money from these installs, its the service contracts that are attractive and the income that is generated after the houses are occupied.

Its all very well getting high and mighty with the "i take care and pride in my installations" attitude. All i can say is good for you, and then point out that all the major house builders only use approved installers (//.National Installer.// included) !!

[Guest Keiko]

4 first fixes in a day and a good young lad could do 5 or 6!!!!

WOW, you'd be going like the clappers or working 15 hours a day.

I used to do 3 first fixes in a day on wooden frame houses in the summer, 2 first fixes in the winter as it was dark by 3.30 and with mud up to the eyeballs it was time to go home.

It took me up to three hours to do a first fix on a wooden frame house. The drilling took the longest.

So how do you make a hole in a joist with a hammer?

Brick duild houses took a while longer. There was all that metal capping strip to nail to the walls then the cuts on my hands and fingers to attend to. The edges of that bloody capping was so damn sharp.

Any one use the **** plastic stuff now?

Keiko.

[paul fae kings]

when i was on install most of the buiders we worked with used compressed joists,with pre drilled knock outs. No drill required until drilling out bell cable.

I could wire one of these with no cables near heating or mains in about 90 mins and that included running in mains.

This was in no way rough

I wired hundreds of these with no problems over the past 7 or 8 years.

Different story though if you have to drill out joists

Reckon i could still cable 3 a day at a nice steady pace

[breff]

The buiders are now using metal joists with wood top and bottom, the metal part isnt solid its nearly all hole(if that makes sense) sort of lots of triangles. You just thread the cables through. Piece of P**s. But youd still have to be on drugs or very big bonus to get 4-6 done in a day. With dry lining you dont have to fit capping or run in conduit, in fact they dont want you to because it means a bigger void behind the plasterboard.

[Guest Peter James]

I would of said three would be max and six would be ruff.

True I havent done one in a while but I have seen some ruff one's in my time.

damaged and stretched cables, run next mains, its not saving time if you have to go back and the ruff ones will always get at least one return trip.

Pete

[Red Fox UK]

Come on, will somebody abuse someone? My fingers itching to click warn

Warren

[Guest PeteGBR]

I feel the need to add something here..

I've been doing a lot of first fixes in new builds this last year (30 or so / 7 zones) and 2-3 A day is probably about it for me.

There are loads of factors that work against you whilst working on building sites:

1; You get to site and have to find a site agent to confirm which plots you're working on - anything up to 1 hour.

2; These 'knock-outs' rarely come out in 1 hit anyhow. I quite often just drill them out as it's quicker.

3; In winter it is bloody cold, the cable goes rigid and tangles up as you're trying to pull it through.

4; Also in the winter there isn't much daylight and you're fumbling around with numb fingers in almost pitch black and cannot even see where these 'knock-outs' are.

5; Start at 8 and finish at 5 - but the trades start at 7 am and finish at 4pm. The site generally gets locked up. You get kicked out then.

6; In the summer it's too hot - That is worse than being cold sometimes, Cables don't tangle up so much though.

7; On big sites you have to follow the electricians, (don't want them to steal your holes to run their cables through with yours).. They invariably have not done anything in two of the three houses that you are scheduled to do.. It is laughable to expect to go to site and find 5 carcases with plumbing and electrics already in..

8; You have to share space with other trades: plumbers,painters,tackers,sparks and some odd job man who's always in the way and whistling.

9; Someone in an office somewhere has decided not to give you a pay rise this year and thought it would be more motivational to set an impossible bonus target instead... Yeah 5 a day should be high enough.. Basic £15K with an OTE of £50,000 with call out etc..

Nuf said!

[Service Engineer]

I have to wonder why any company would want the hastle of installing these systems anyway.

The budgets are usually pre-set, ie: £200 to £300 per house,

That includes, 1st fix, Install, 12 months cover, parts & labour.

So where`s the proffit in that..?

Is their a profit in that..?

If there is then your fitting the cheapo stuff.

You cant say youll make your profit later because there`s no guarantee that a customer will stick with you, infact i`d say if you get 50% call you for the 1st service then thats a miracle, and on the 2nd year perhaps only 25%.

There`s only one winner with these installations and thats the builder, because he`ll charge 3 times what he`s paying you to the customers.

[Guest Andyp]

Not all new build installs are done on the cheap. We are just completing 17 apartments that are all having Galaxy 16+ with 2 or 3 detectors. The budget for each system was about £450 for 2nd fix only as we first fixed everything under a different contract.

Andy