Specification

[Guest anguscanplay]

Hmmmm Corgi = Part P.

lol - I said get tough not exclude most of it - lol

top tip for anybody with a spare couple of million - open an assesment / vetting centre for the alarm trade, liscensing is coming

[alterEGO]

lol - I said get tough not exclude most of it - lol

top tip for anybody with a spare couple of million - open an assesment / vetting centre for the alarm trade, liscensing is coming

hmmm...............how long have they been saying 'soon everyone will have to be C&G qualified' hasn't happened.

if i ran things i would have put that before all the EU stuff.

[Guest anguscanplay]

hmmm...............how long have they been saying 'soon everyone will have to be C&G qualified' hasn't happened.

if i ran things i would have put that before all the EU stuff.

I think i`ve told this story before -

remember when the plumbers said ACOP`s no way we have corgi already blah blah , the day the law came in there was but one man with the facilities to certify the plumbers - sold it for 6million ( yep he`s one of my best customers too )

[Truss and France]

Hello,

Customers insurance company contacted me requesting a 'specification' for a recent intruder alarm installation.

What exactly are they asking for? What sort of information do they need?

Any advice on this would be much appriciated.

Unbelievable!

[arfur mo]

just thought i'd add my 2 p worth as a non registered installer who knows it from this side of the fence, as there is a lot of hysterical half truth's being expounded in this thread.

there is actual 'case history' referred to in these forums regarding trading standards, if nothing is wrote down and an installer sells an 'alarm system' effectively this could simply a door contact and a switch, and if that sounds when a particular door is opened that constitutes a basic alarm system.

not professional and so not what i hope we would do (but there are sharks in these here waters). even so thats the legal interpretation of the position held by the OFT, not going to it with anyone as you can simply phone them up and ask, i know because i went after a few cowboys for clients and got that response.

in most such cases the monies will change hands on completion, this will be either the balance or the whole amount, at this point the client is in the 'buyer beware' zone that the system is 'as agreed' when they discussed it and at that price agreed.

a system installed to a dwelling agreed between a client and engineer/company (pj or not), and not subjected to insurance specification at the time of installation is a 'peace of mind' security system, and so specification is a private affair between client and installer - thats also legally trust me - end of.

having paid in full, and possession being 9/10ths of british law the client would have a real hard time proving what he got was not what he ordered or agreed without either a written specification, or a viable witnessed verbal conversation, it becomes his/her word against the installers and a lawyers picnic.

from early days i always supplied a specification bashed out initally on a C64 (i'm always one at the cutting edge of technology ), mainly to prevent confusion or disputes but also made re-prints simple and in truth my handwriting is appalling.

this will not always satisfy the insurance company, sometime confirmation i am happy to attend is enough, normally seek confirmation of a service contract or agreement. this i provide as an agreement only as i don't charge a yearly fee for the standby.

most times this crops up (i suspect as with the O/P) when the client seeks a lower insurance premium or new owner takes over. the broker is approached and will ask if the system is installed and maintained by a registered company, if so a discount is usually offered around 15% usually, and of course he gets a commission from them, so he won't push it push it will he

now i'm not saying they are a licentious bunch of "characters" but the words i would use the BWF will delete.

so i get the call, i ask -:

1) "how much is the saving on the premium of 15% actually worth per annum in

[Guest anguscanplay]

pub bores and armchair lawyers ( love em to bits ) this will be quick cause I`m late for work

just thought i'd add my 2 p worth as a non registered installer who knows it from this side of the fence, as there is a lot of hysterical half truth's being expounded in this thread.

this is the biggest one in it

there is actual 'case history' referred to in these forums regarding trading standards, if nothing is wrote down and an installer sells an 'alarm system' effectively this could simply a door contact and a switch, and if that sounds when a particular door is opened that constitutes a basic alarm system.

whilst an alarm used to be defined as such if it covered " legit " points of entry that is no longer the case

not professional and so not what i hope we would do (but there are sharks in these here waters). even so thats the legal interpretation of the position held by the OFT, not going to it with anyone as you can simply phone them up and ask, i know because i went after a few cowboys for clients and got that response.

whats the OFT got to do with anything its a trading starndards issue - unless the guy is charging credit too

in most such cases the monies will change hands on completion, this will be either the balance or the whole amount, at this point the client is in the 'buyer beware' zone that the system is 'as agreed' when they discussed it and at that price agreed.

"buyer beware" hmm ? -agree already gone past that stage

a system installed to a dwelling agreed between a client and engineer/company (pj or not), and not subjected to insurance specification at the time of installation is a 'peace of mind' security system, and so specification is a private affair between client and installer - thats also legally trust me - end of.

specification has to comply with current regs and IE you could still be sued following a claim for negligant design - thats also legally true trust me -end of.

having paid in full, and possession being 9/10ths of british law the client would have a real hard time proving what he got was not what he ordered or agreed without either a written specification, or a viable witnessed verbal conversation, it becomes his/her word against the installers and a lawyers picnic.

thats the whole point of this thread - works both ways - prove you wern`t contacting every window

from early days i always supplied a specification bashed out initally on a C64 (i'm always one at the cutting edge of technology ), mainly to prevent confusion or disputes but also made re-prints simple and in truth my handwriting is appalling.

so`s your english ( just joshing )

this will not always satisfy the insurance company, sometime confirmation i am happy to attend is enough, normally seek confirmation of a service contract or agreement. this i provide as an agreement only as i don't charge a yearly fee for the standby.

not going to stand up in court if it goes contractual - there are standard forms

most times this crops up (i suspect as with the O/P) when the client seeks a lower insurance premium or new owner takes over. the broker is approached and will ask if the system is installed and maintained by a registered company, if so a discount is usually offered around 15% usually, and of course he gets a commission from them, so he won't push it push it will he

now i'm not saying they are a licentious bunch of "characters" but the words i would use the BWF will delete.

so i get the call, i ask -:

1) "how much is the saving on the premium of 15% actually worth per annum in

[arfur mo]

pub bores and armchair lawyers ( love em to bits ) this will be quick cause I`m late for work

tbh Angus we could go too and fro forever on this for a very long time (the G595 fobs issue was bad enough ), and referring to screwing a builder as an example of cast iron proof, when it is just not likely to carry any weight in this scenario is not helpful imo.

as for this o/p, he has stated the system was in BEFORE the insurance company got involved, experience will tell him to check with his client in future if the system is required for insurance purposes, but he has done no wrong in my eye's at least on what he as said thus far.

as i said if it's not wrote down then it's open to conjecture what was agreed, and not having the spec on paperwork is not enough to claim a non professional installation. i would be very wary of being sued for stating so without seeing the 'evidence' of the install simply based on lack of decent paperwork.

the point you still miss is when an agreement is verbally struck between two parties, if it go's sour then both are in difficulty as nothing of what was agreed can be proved by either, it then comes down to arbitration, threats, lawyers and wallet size. putting a wall up which is dangerous would be a snap, installing 3 detectors instead of 4 would be harder to , not fitting a door contact to the back door where there is a pir to cover and so on.

what i would urge everyone to consider, before running of at the mouth and summoning the hounds of hell in laying into this poor O/P, he may well be just a part timer, starting out or might have worked for a company now trying to do the job properly, perhaps even been laid off. so without knowing this guy's background i really don't think it fair anyone suggesting he is some sort of cowboy or fraudulent shyster, purely based on the asking of a simple question about paper work.

the members who piously advise 'go work for a company 1st to learn your trade' need to think and ask themselves how anyone ever gets into this industry, especially if untrained today. very few apprenticeships are offered, and it is exceedingly hard to get taken on as a novice or trainee, we even have a guy advertising his labour for free just to get an invite and learn this way. so what is he to do? well i know i'd do exactly what he is doing and start teaching myself with hopefully he aid of some knowledgeable helpful people to guide me in the right direction - so know anyone know where he csan find such people then?

if anyone feels they can't give advice as he presents some sort of threat in 'competition' to you, yee gods why ever do you talk to any of the other trade members inhere let alone public? after all surely we can pose far more of a serious threat to you

regs

alan

[Guest anguscanplay]

just to save you having to sit still long enough to actually read a post ( and having 1st hand experiance of fighting a court case with the help of trading standards ) I`ll sum this up in one line

" did money change hands ?" if its yes and you dont know the basics of the service your providing then you are stuffed - easy