Connecting Contacts, Bell Pir's

[morph]

If you guys want to continue this rubbish again take it to PM, becuase you know what will happen if you continue it here.

[Guest anguscanplay]

Which way do you do it AG ? power up panel and keypad like it says in the manuals then connect devices or the other way ? or even the mystical " third way " ?

edit: Big Elephants Can Always Understand Smaller Elephants

[Driller]

Right thanks for all the suggestions fellas. I've tested all the door/window contacts and have the correct resistances both for normal closed and alarm open (I haven't checked tamper-I suppose I should really). I put 9volts dc through the PIR's and checked normal closed and alarm open also. Interestingly I measured the resistance before powering up and got the resistance for alarm open-so presumably there is a hold off relay in there somewhere. I guess you didn't need me to tell you that heh, heh. As far as mixing up cables-I've got a horrible obsession with checking things and will check literally 20 times before putting the lid on, so if I do blow a fuse I shall be seriously //.B.W.F.// off. Anyway if my tester isn't lying everything is fine. I shall note the current, voltage and resistance values you suggested Angus and keep them near by in the event of any shinanigans.

I imagine that everyone has their own way of doing things and that it depends upon the panel used as well. It certainly suggests in the my inst manual that I should wire up the RPK, program then connect the contacts etc I like the idea of doing it progressively so that I can fault find as I go along.

Just read on a thread in the DIY (can I say that here?) forum regarding permitted load on the 12v bell output of the main board. My PIR's only draw 12mA odd but I'm going to have to check the internal siren to see if along with the SAB I'm not going to go over.

[arfur mo]

no way on this planet do you especially as an armature (with all due respects) work with mains applied to the alarm panel, for your own safety and that of others

'PRO' installers will vary in how they approach an installation, i place them in two main camps -

1) those who were taught proper procedures which includes training on the proper usage of meters.

2) those who were 'dragged up' (for want of better words) using the 'touch and dab' methods.

every cable you lay has to be tested with a good quality preferably calibrated meter that you are fully conversant with, prior to any connecting of any equipment to the controls or power supply units. tests are carried out for insulation (shorts between cores to cores and cores to earth caused by crushed, chaffed or other damage) and installation (correct resistances checked against cable characteristics and cable length calculations), only then do you connect any cable to the down pwered control equipment one cable/device at a time, powering up after each connection to test correct operation before continuing.

by default this means you install and test you control panel and keypad (if a separate item) 1st on working on battery power only, and to allow socially acceptable testing, the external siren/s would usually be the last items to be connected and enabled.

regs

alan

[markovitch]

Think you'll find he has.

Mucking about with electronics in his words doesnt tell us about his back ground ,hence the reason he is posting on here

[Driller]

no way on this planet do you especially as an armature (with all due respects) work with mains applied to the alarm panel, for your own safety and that of others

'PRO' installers will vary in how they approach an installation, i place them in two main camps -

1) those who were taught proper procedures which includes training on the proper usage of meters.

2) those who were 'dragged up' (for want of better words) using the 'touch and dab' methods.

every cable you lay has to be tested with a good quality preferably calibrated meter that you are fully conversant with, prior to any connecting of any equipment to the controls or power supply units. tests are carried out for insulation (shorts between cores to cores and cores to earth caused by crushed, chaffed or other damage) and installation (correct resistances checked against cable characteristics and cable length calculations), only then do you connect any cable to the down pwered control equipment one cable/device at a time, powering up after each connection to test correct operation before continuing.

by default this means you install and test you control panel and keypad (if a separate item) 1st on working on battery power only, and to allow socially acceptable testing, the external siren/s would usually be the last items to be connected and enabled.

regs

alan

I certainly appreciate the thoroughness of the above. They wouldn't go that far in France that's for sure!

Just to confirm: at no point will the cover be off the panel with the mains on. When I said I measured resistance unpowered and then powered I meant with just 9V applied to each PIR one by one from an external transformer/rectifier. Still no connections made to panel.

[Driller]

Mucking about with electronics in his words doesnt tell us about his back ground ,hence the reason he is posting on here

I'd hoped it was understood that I was trying not to sound arrogant when I said "mucking about". I wouldn't presume to come onto someones territory and wee all over the many years of experience and expertise here. I have however received a lot of help and guidance here. I have worked on PCB projects and others over the years using for example a 555 timer IC. I have played in a rock band for 20 years and have my own recording studio on my property-quite a lot of cables involved here. You could probably work out how to use said studio-but it would take you as long as me to install my alarm, even with the manual .The implication was that due to this I knew how to connect 12V + and - , alarm and tamper using the same colours either end of a piece of alarm cable. Or choose the correct jumper position for the correct resistance for alarm and tamper in a DEOL setup. I Just wanted to confirm I wasn't going to do any damage to my alarm as the manual seemed ambiguous in this sense. I do not propose to be able to site study and devise and install alarm systems in a short amount of time in a commercial environment on a day to day basis and provide after sales assistance and recovery.

[barooga]

Mucking about with electronics in his words doesnt tell us about his back ground ,hence the reason he is posting on here

Driller is not unknown to some. Simply because someone is not a trade member does not mean they lack knowledge. You will see from drillers' replies he has used employed good working practice throught this project and has posted sufficient information to allow members with specific experience on the relevant equipment to advise accordingly.

[Guest anguscanplay]

Mucking about with electronics in his words doesnt tell us about his back ground ,hence the reason he is posting on here

make your mind up - either the advice on the site is poor or it`s too advanced, hell it`s not rocket science is it, anyone can pick it up, unless your only doing wireless it`s little more than connecting by numbers - but then that attitude wouldnt give you the chance to try and be the big man would it?

use the search button and see Mr Drillers posts - he probably has more idea than 2/3 of the joiners on here

[arfur mo]

I certainly appreciate the thoroughness of the above. They wouldn't go that far in France that's for sure!

Just to confirm: at no point will the cover be off the panel with the mains on. When I said I measured resistance unpowered and then powered I meant with just 9V applied to each PIR one by one from an external transformer/rectifier. Still no connections made to panel.

thank you Driller,

i do have 40+ years experience so i could possible 'p' furthest up the wall (quantity is not the problem - just the lower pressure due to my Victorian plumbing )

phew!, at least you safety concerns in mind,

the pir's are designed to work down to 10.4 volts so 9 volts is not a decent 'test' and will most likely cause unstable reactions from the units. still worried about 'external transformer and french electrics 'moi ami Rodney!').

just use the stand-by battery with an in-line fuse of 1 amp would be better, but having a recording studio and installed all the electronics and cabling surely you will have a bench mounted regulated power supply?

our caution in advising is prompted by concerns with your safety and also you not inadvertently damaging the equipment, we also like members to be around long enough to receive all the best insults (only joking)

you may well run all the cables, successfully connect and get all the detectors to work you will then be upto an experience trainee grade, the skill comes in design and implementation. there are program features a pro can make dance for you, reading the manual will be unlikely to enlighten you due to the onscure terminology used in our trade.

put it this way i can wire up speakers to an amplifier, well i used to run a mobile disco and i built it all myself, including all the decks, amplifiers and even the speaker cabinets, but could i match you playing your guitar?

regs

alan