Diy Regulations / Standards

[Guest anguscanplay]

a professional membership of 5k + ............

whoe`s that then ?

[barooga]

i'm sorry, disrespectful and snide remarks insinuating my lak of ability to wire alarm equipment to the mains was just polite repartee was it? i'm astounded at that insinuation, especially from someone who has never seen my work and in comparrason cn not dream to match my experience.

so don't try to hide behind that statement, your just doing yourself a massive injustice.

the kit in it's entirety was shown in that picture, your below par response and my subsequent replies were based on that kit, no repost from you about the plastic housing that i mentioned. (btw your psu was dismissedd and long forgotten about by this time).

when your wrong be big enough to admit it oe withdraw with good grace - or just just suck it up as i do (which just happens to be very rare - but i just can't help that though), or do you think a professional membership of 5k + would simply not notice when you type your utter twaddle?

and i'm 'patronising' am i? (yeh right - as if!)

regs

alan

What a pompous, self deluding individual you are!

You have danced around the issues of safety, ignored certain points then try and take moral high ground on thw basis of your superior knowledge. I'd read again very carefully what it is you wrote.

And that neon driver??? says it all.

I'm out of here.

[arfur mo]

What a pompous, self deluding individual you are!

You have danced around the issues of safety, ignored certain points then try and take moral high ground on thw basis of your superior knowledge. I'd read again very carefully what it is you wrote.

And that neon driver??? says it all.

I'm out of here.

hypocrisy is a a distasteful 'badge' worn by those of no insight

so, your very convinced about this neon screwdriver business then, you must have very damming irrevocable evidence to prove it i would have thought, because you would not say anything you could not prove - would you?

so, you gonna tell me (and the waiting world) whats wrong with a neon screwdriver - or what?

but please only in a scientifically proven way, state the statistic's to prove it (if you can please), then try comparing the dangers of say eating a bag of peanuts or smoking a fag perhaps

i don't mind being wrong - honest, but you've just got to substantiate it, try not get hysterical - or you will just look it.

don't want stories about a guy who droped it in his swimming pool then used it as a chisel, then as a tester as best imo to stay in the world of probabilities - not insane possibilities.

regs

alan

[magpye]

Hi there, I'm hoping someone can give me a simple answer, I can't find it anywhere.

Could you tell me,does a DIY alarm system in any way fall under the control of any of the British or European standards?

When I say DIY I mean just that, a kit bought from a high street shop and installed by any man in the street, not an alarm installer.

To clarify, I mean alarm system regulations, ( PD:****, EN:**** etc ) NOT electrical or noise pollution

This is like Chinese whispers!

Thought a copy of the original post was warranted

[Guest anguscanplay]

so, you gonna tell me (and the waiting world) whats wrong with a neon screwdriver - or what?

depends - it tells you the curcuits dead (or your drivers broken), it tells you the curcuits live (or your drivers broken), it tells you the curuits dead and your dead ( because your drivers broken)

you play russian roulette, I`m worth more than a 99p bit of plastic

[Cubit]

Arfur.

How the hell can you possibly try and defend this practice?

It's a Potentially dangerous practice as well you know, then you try and claim others are wrong, post ridiculous non sequitors as if this makes you right.

We have all read your qualifications on Electrical Installation, Inspection and Testing...and now your lack of knowledge on Part P.

Sorry, but you are wrong, plain wrong.

[arfur mo]

depends - it tells you the curcuits dead (or your drivers broken), it tells you the curcuits live (or your drivers broken), it tells you the curuits dead and your dead ( because your drivers broken)

you play russian roulette, I`m worth more than a 99p bit of plastic

hi Angus,

tbh that applies to any test kit used, i and also seen others trust even expensive meters having tested the input terminals in the panel, then believing its 'dead' got a packet when working on the mains cables. some shocks have been down to intermittent leads, others to faulty selector switches or incorrect selection of range, in this respect where more recent meters don't show ac if set to dc the problem is more likely to happen by mistake.

it's my view and what i was taught (which eventually - i even learn t ), is any test kit should be tested against a known condition for proper operation before considered as accurate or reliable, even then it's use is approached with caution especially where high/lethal voltages are present. the 1st basic meter test evbery time it comes out of the box is to check the leads condition, and continuity on low ohms scale before anything else. much the same as using a neon, i.e. check its physical condition then test it on a known live source before trusting it - simple as.

the structure off the neon screwdriver (for those who don't know) is very simple, the the neon itself is a small glass tube with 2 electrodes in it which are not in contact with each other at any point, the tube is filed with an inert gas, when you pass a small current through the case at about 70 volts or more, and it glows very simple science.

there is no direct physical connection between the blade and touched area on the screwdriver, for safety there is high value ressistor in series which serves to prevent shock should the neon tube ever be damaged and short out by defect or being dropped.

personally, yes i always use a meter as the 1st device, but i also always test with a neon to make sure, as i have been caught out seeral times with a disconnected neutral, even a perfect 'billy bee's' meter will never beat a neon for reliably indicating such a common danger.

get your 'researcher' to do this simple google like "dangers of neon screwdrivers", if they were that dangerous there would be simply millions of hits, like you get with asbestos or lead in paint, all i could find to put on the 'minus sheet' was some guy back in 1955 worried about his appendage being damaged if he happened to have held the screwdriver while testing mains, and his 'old chap' was in contact with a metal object, the current and voltage passed through it could cause severe damage in his opinion (bet he just loves nylon carpets then ) - hmm! now just how you would come to be working on the mains with your flies open beats me (oficer ) but it takes all kinds.

your known imagination leads me to let you make your own jokes - and draw the pictures.

regs

alan

[Guest anguscanplay]

makes a change - you missing the point entirely

[arfur mo]

Arfur.

How the hell can you possibly try and defend this practice?

It's a Potentially dangerous practice as well you know, then you try and claim others are wrong, post ridiculous non sequitors as if this makes you right.

We have all read your qualifications on Electrical Installation, Inspection and Testing...and now your lack of knowledge on Part P.

Sorry, but you are wrong, plain wrong.

hi cubit,

i'm honestly not just putting up some 'fun' pedantic argument, i truly happen to totally disagree with you that using a neon screwdriver is in anyway a more dangerous practice or offers any extra real peril.

i'm arguing far less peril is offered than the incorrectly using more sophisticated kit, for the the diy'er especially, a pro will (should?) have been properly trained.

for anyone to accept any practice a dangerous and so be deterred from using it, surely it is best to explain why, not just make a blanket claim it is so?

example, take using a trolley jack on a car and climbing underneath, the very real (but not to obvious) danger to the uninitiated is the jack can suddenly fail or slip and the car crushes you (and i have dug 3 people out my self to date so far, one fatality, one who lost fingers), so lift car with a jack and secure on axle stands and remove the weight off the jack before you get underneath it - i.e. don't rely on the jack alone and the reason why.

nothing like that explanation has been posted, just several rampant and righteous but ths far unsupported condemnations, one reference to and electricians inspectors view but not why he holds it, which serves what purpose guys?

this is a serious request, no banter no insinuation or disrespect intended. if in i'm that wrong and i don't beleive i am then for my, and everyone else's improved safety reading this thread please 'burn me down' with why it is so, it should be that easy surely?

your opinion is one i and many can respect based on your qualifications alone, my opinion is one which is based on using neon screwdrivers since i was 5 years old without any mishaps so far (might possibly explain my mental state though ).

also see reply to Angus.

regs

alan

[arfur mo]

makes a change - you missing the point entirely

i admit i totally missed the point - or would have had i noticed it

we all bang on a lot about safety in here, yet nobody wants to tell me why or how using a neon screwdriver sold by the trillions is dangerous or any more dangerous to test mains is present with.

so help me out guys I HONESTLY REALLY DON'T KNOW WHY

and i'm not joking or playing the 'old fool' either.

regs

alan