zaz Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 Hi guys i wonder if any of you have come across this problem before i had a customer call out for a fault on a PIR it just went into alarm when he was at home one day. I checked the wire all fine i didnt change the PIR, Not one in the van so i just turned off the zone 3, four hours later get a phone call same thing happened again zone 2. Both PIR are on the same run of wire. any ideas please.
magpye Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 Hi guys i wonder if any of you have come across this problem before i had a customer call out for a fault on a PIR it just went into alarm when he was at home one day. I checked the wire all fine i didnt change the PIR, Not one in the van so i just turned off the zone 3, four hours later get a phone call same thing happened again zone 2. Both PIR are on the same run of wire. any ideas please. Panel type? Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care.
CompostCORNER Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I agree. Sounds like a cable fault. I had a strange situation just a few weeks ago where according to the customer, a detector kept setting the alarm off shortly after the system became set. Before i started, I asked the customer to demonstrate what happens. It turned out that the customer was slightly incorrect with his description. The alarm never set in the first place due to a detector being active. Going to the detector itself, it was happily lighting up and going off, clicking faintly as it did. Of course, the LED is never an indication that the PIR relay is operating but cable testing was the next course of action. Sure enough, the alarm pair were closed, so too were the tamper pair. But all 4 cores were giving a closed reading between one another. When I told the customer the cable was the problem, something clicked in his head. The fault started around christmas. The cable was 'glued' into the top groove of the picture rail in his dining room. And he had stuck a load of pins into the picture rail to secure his christmas cards, which were long gone but the pins remained. Removing them cleared the cable fault. He declined having the cable replaced, instead, gambling on the still damaged cable performing correctly. I notice in the first post, you didn't have a replacement detector for this customer. Whats wrong with swapping it for a known working detector from elsewhere in the property? At least the fault finding would have moved forward a step as if the fault moved with the detector, then hey presto, the detector would be the cause. If the fault stayed on this zone, then you would know it was a cable/panel fault. But the point being, one potential problem removed from the list of possible faults. Narrowing the possibilities. This type of fault only becomes a headache if it's an intermittent fault that is clear when the engineer visits. Otherwise, no reason why the cause couldn't be found first time if armed with just a multi-meter and using the swapping detector method I pointed out.
black knight Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I notice in the first post, you didn't have a replacement detector for this customer. Whats wrong with swapping it for a known working detector from elsewhere in the property? At least the fault finding would have moved forward a step as if the fault moved with the detector, then hey presto, the detector would be the cause. If the fault stayed on this zone, then you would know it was a cable/panel fault. But the point being, one potential problem removed from the list of possible faults. Narrowing the possibilities. This type of fault only becomes a headache if it's an intermittent fault that is clear when the engineer visits. Otherwise, no reason why the cause couldn't be found first time if armed with just a multi-meter and using the swapping detector method I pointed out. Agreed - to many time a detector is just replaced. It make finincial and engineering sense to follow c/c's method but as i well know some companies prefer you to just change the sensor rather then messing around. p THE BLACK KNIGHT "Any comments / opinions posted are my opinion only and do not represent those of my employer or Company."
zaz Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 Agreed - to many time a detector is just replaced. It make finincial and engineering sense to follow c/c's method but as i well know some companies prefer you to just change the sensor rather then messing around.p Thanks for the advice i think you are right , i have since changed the pir and the fault has accured again next step change the cable.
black knight Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Thanks for the advice i think you are right , i have since changed the pir and the fault has accured again next step change the cable. Not neccessarily, try different conductors/different zone on panel, ask customer if anything has changed recently in effected area (ie fax machine) try temp putting another sensor in series or maybe if f/a is happening on a regular basis, disc. sensor leaving conductors only (if customers agrees of course). You need to follow a true diagnostic path to ascertain cause ie if you move cables to another zone and it still f/a's whilst you have end disc. from detection and shorted then you have proved it is cable. Similarly if you put another sensor below offending one (pref on another pair of cables) and it still activates it may be enviromental (or power). you get the jist - you need to have a plan. As previously suggested swopping for similar sensor on site is also a good plan. Maybe you will need to re-point sensor ie reposition it, or upgrade it to a dual or quad. Questions like how long has sensor being fitted/has this area caused problems before come to mind. Sorry if i am harping on but i like to see a proper investigation not just lets do this and see if it cures it. good luck Paul THE BLACK KNIGHT "Any comments / opinions posted are my opinion only and do not represent those of my employer or Company."
Guest anguscanplay Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Sorry if i am harping on but i like to see a proper investigation not just lets do this and see if it cures it.good luck Paul er wasnt it unset when it "went off..."then ? its either a tamper, short between poles or a dodgy resistor thats unless your charging PER call ?
black knight Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 getting confused in my old age (and c/c post made me think otherwise as well). I am not familar with the panel type so don,t know if it EOL or if like 9800 etc it shares a common connection between two zones for tamper? has the other zone f/a'ed since? and i presume it was a tamper? Cable does seem the obvious one now but i would still go down the short cables out/try alternative zone route if circumstances permit (Note to self : must read posts properly!!) p THE BLACK KNIGHT "Any comments / opinions posted are my opinion only and do not represent those of my employer or Company."
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