Zone Doubling

[DamienGiles]

Hello!

I've been reading through a few Zone Doubling posts and webpages and I'm wondering if you could clarify something.

In the house, there will be

3 Door contacts

1 Shock Sensor

1 Panic Button

Fire Alarms (daisy)

9 PIRs

Total Zones: 15

I've decided on the Risco Gardtec 490x but with 16 zones doubled it's almost maxed out (not including the 8 zone wireless expander)

Whist I will probably not plan to add 15 sensors, it's the possible maximum of an appropriate sensor in each room.

My question is, can the zone doubling (the actual jumping from sensor 1 to sensor 2) be done in the control box? i.e. at what point will the extra cable run from control box -> sensor 1 -> control box -> sensor 2 -> control box be a problem?

I'm finding it hard to locate any meaty information on the 490x and since I can't download the installer manual from risco directly (haven't looked at any peer-2-peer networks yet) I can't confirm any other questions I've got until the kit arrived (a little annoying).

The Risco site doesn't have any information on the 490x RKP - I've found somewhere that the RKP has an ability to provide an additional two zones in the panel - does this mean that I'll have 16 from the control box and 2 & 2 for the two RKP (i.e. 22 zones in total)?

Is there any downside to using the zones on the RKP as apposed to the control box if the RKP is closer to two sensors as apposed to the control box?

I note from the manual of the 490x that when a tamper is triggered, it notifys you by displaying the pre-defined sensor name minus the last 3 characters - is this right? Couldn't they add "TAMPER" to the add or something?

Am I right also that when a sensor is detected, all RKP will display the predefined name? i.e. when we part set the system at night and someones trying to break into our garage - it'll show this on the panel so we know that the house hasn't been compromised.

Sorry for all the questions, just a few loose ends to tidy up before I wipe out the card!

[topalarms]

Why do you call your 'fire alarms' Daisy?

Run all your circuits on separate cables back to the panel, if you use 8-core for example you will have spare cores that you could tap into in the future if required.

I know little or nothing about Risco panels and even on the odd occasion in the last year or so when I've had to fit one I didn't find the manual very helpful, hopefully it's improved by now or you will have much fun.

[kka]

with out the install manual, you are snookered for zone doubling, because you need to know the value of the resistor to be used.......

it is also very complicated to explain to someone of little knowledge or experience of alarm..

if its the same as the cpx, zone doubling will take the zones to 18 using eol....plus i think two in the keypad, giving twenty in total......

zone doubling can be a nightmare if you have a fault...........

but honestly you will need the manual.....

[DamienGiles]

Hello,

I'll have the manual when I order the stuff - as this has to be included within the box?

The Risco website shows wiring diagram for the panel and sensors (incl zone doubling detailing resistor values)

[kka]

sorry risco have stop giving manuals out with new alarms...they give you a instruction sheet.....it only goes so far.......

[DamienGiles]

Instruction sheet? Have you seen one - what's it include?

I haven't had much time to look round the net, but there are a few fleebay auctions etc claiming to offer the installers version for like 99p... will be an investment if risco doesn't offer it.

Although, it seems a bit silly that they don't offer it in a box as how can people install it? :S

[Guest anguscanplay]

Although, it seems a bit silly that they don't offer it in a box as how can people install it? :S

I`ll try and answer some of your questions - if you promise not to off in a huff later

first things first they don`t offer a manual in the box because the systems not meant for self install, the fact you can buy it doesnt mean the manfs want you to

the full manual will be even less us to you, it`ll just confuse things

the tamper indicator is zone name plus the letter T as the last digit on the display, it only looses digits if the names long

zone doubling is easy, you literally take a line "through..." one device (with one resistor value ) and out to the second device with a different value - this way the panel can see if its device 1 ( say 22222k) or device 2 (say 88888k)

keypad zones are defined by the software so you can ONLY use the first one for entry/exit etc and if you want chime on a second zone then you have to have it on the keypasd zone too

please ask again if you have anymore questions but its not really a panel where we can say " connect this color to that switch and then this will happen ...." without you having some grounding in the concepts

Angus

[arfur mo]

Angus has covered the 'meat' of the info, if you have not ordered your panel then please get the next one up which is a G595.

this will allow extra expansions to be fitted for you needs, if ordered with the 4 wire keypads (which also fit trhe 490) then adding fobs to multi keypads is a far simpler process.

although the wiring is relatively simple to 'us'for zone doubling as kka rightly says sorting out problems can be a pain, you need to be very conversant with and also have a good DVM and best along with some alarm know how. so my simple advice is do not use zone doubling.

the fly sheet is very basic, not many terms are explained for the diy perspective, as usually experienced engineers install them who already have this knowledge.

not supplying a full manual with every panel keeps cost lower and enhances security, and save's our vans from becoming chocker with them.

regs

aln

[billythebellbox]

life too short to zone double*

* recalls former DA life with "pear drops"

[DamienGiles]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Alan, you seem to know you gardtec kits.

I've contacted the retailer of the alarm and they'll include the manual if I state when checking out - as the user manual doesn't include alot of the control panel configuration which would be frustrating to say the least.

Whilst I understand the reasoning behind not including it by default, it's a little security through obscurity.

That aside, I've had a look at the 595 since I haven't placed the order yet and I notice it'll support 4 x 8 zone expanders or 1 x 30 zone module.

the PTM - what's the interface for that - a laptop or a handheld device - could make recovery easy as backing up and storing away!

Am I correct in assuming that the 595 already includes a digicom for gsm texting/calling? I can't find much out at the moment but will continue looking!

I also take it that it doesn't include a wireless expander already and this is purchased separately as the brochure again isn't clear

Thanks for putting up with the questions!