Cctv Format

[Doktor Jon]

Cost is not the prime criteria for judging effectiveness of a CCTV System.

It is the care and planning of the system which maximises 'the bang for the buck'.

Absolutely spot on ilkie!!

In many situations, the effectiveness argument is clearly nothing to do with budget, it's simply about knowledge and experience.

If I can give you a simple example I came across a couple of days ago. In this story, the camera which has been set up to provide a degree of protection for pedestrians is patently incapable of delivering an effective level of performance, simply because it has been installed in the wrong place, and with an inappropriate lens fitted. It would probably have cost exactly the same give or take a tenner, to have configured the camera correctly.

Those that assess the requirement, plan the most effective layout of the system, undertake careful selection of the equipment knowing the requirements for producing evidence and full understanding of the legislation are the true professionals in the CCTV trade.

Properly selected, budget equipment may well be fit for purpose.

Also knowing when CCTV should not be installed is also important.

Again as ilkie suggests, it's not about the actual cost of the equipment, but rather how it is used.

Now nobody is going to suggest that a cheap camera will invariably perform the same as an expensive camera, as the range of products available will testify that it's a lot more complicated than that. But even with a cheapo box camera and a decent lens, it's quite possible to produce more impressive images, than an expensive box camera, questionable lens, and big gaps in the knowledge base needed to make best use of whatever 'tools' are available.

In practice, it isn't really possible to make exact comparisons between CCTV and other disciplines or technologies, simply because the way in which it can be applied and the range of possible solutions, can in practice be quite substantial.

That's perhaps the most obvious reason why any eventual competency certification scheme, is going to be extremely expensive to achieve, and may well create a huge shortage in qualified installers if it isn't introduced sympathetically.

My best guess based on comments I've heard, suggests not so much "if" a proper qualification and registration scheme is introduced, but rather "when" ...

[james.wilson]

Doktor i do feel its a when too but feel

a proper qualification and registration scheme is introduced

will actually be

a qualification and registration scheme is introduced

[Doktor Jon]

It's late ... I'm tired

[arfur mo]

ilkis make is point and i see what he is aiming at, but this has to be conciderd as equivillant ti fishing with a hook, a well disgused lure and lot of patience, where you hope to catch a quality record braking perch in a certain limited swim, against using a large nett where the quality of fish is lower but much likely a begger quantity.

you can feed your family on both and depending what you spend to some degree how well, but more often even with a cheap nett which granted might will break if you have that big perch swim into it.

but thats clearly the decision as best advised by you to be made by the main end user - not the police or us, we can only explain the pro's and cons then recommend.

same as you do buying vehicles, hard to beat a merc or toyota for quality and reliability but most give your guys a berlingo or partner etc, why, because it's far cheaper so you can have more of them and still be acceptable as a unit for work, just not for the occasional taking clients out to dinner in.

imo i don't see how it can be clearer than that but its a fre world (well outsie this forum)

one thing in all this, even with the info at hand, the client phones the Police to be told "we will be along sometime this or maybe next week".

after all the effort makes you kinda wonder sometimes why we are bothering to fuss, or if being truly upright and moral - even selling cctv.

2 incidents this month, one an arsonist nearly took out a whole street lighting the waste bins, another a a theft of ipods and purses from unlocked staff room in same pub, client over the moon had some 10 calls to quote from it as both incidents gave images crystal clear and bang to rights - Police? took about 8 days to saunter in for the cd's.

regs

alan

[Guest anguscanplay]

2 incidents this month, one an arsonist nearly took out a whole street lighting the waste bins, another a a theft of ipods and purses from unlocked staff room in same pub, client over the moon had some 10 calls to quote from it as both incidents gave images crystal clear and bang to rights - Police? took about 8 days to saunter in for the cd's.regs

alan

ask yourself why, it`s nothing to do with lack of manpower...... the O/P could have been asked to view the tapes for them LOL

[arfur mo]

ask yourself why, it`s nothing to do with lack of manpower...... the O/P could have been asked to view the tapes for them LOL

i attended both times at clients request to do this for them, and paid me an emergency call out fee, person on phone actually said "thats handy as we can collect both together next week"

i ask you

problem with all this is the feeling of the client/s, is it actually worth while going for even better gear having excellent results of this kit, if he can't get a quick enough response. at the moment he is very miffed about the whole system in his eye's it is as much use as a toothless Doberman pincher - and if i'm honest i have to agree with his viewpoint.

the knock on to that the next pub/bar he opens will be low spec kit - just for his staff to watch each other and reduce skiving

regs

alan

[james.wilson]

but then something will happen he will have poor images and want something better, and as you installed it...it will be your problem.

This is why i avoid it.

[ilkie]

If i asked you ilke, i want a cctv system to provide facial recognition of my drive area, and i have

[james.wilson]

lol true

BUt my point was would you refuse to install anything?

I agree that cctv is used in many places that other systems would work far better, and that is a problem but it doesnt get us away from i wasnt x but i have y what can you do.

Id expect you to tell me that i wouldnt have evidential images to process with or without csi's amazing interpolation, but all i want to do is keep an eye on my car.

I know and understand that i would need probably 8 cameras just to give 50% at all points on my drive and lawn, but i cant afford that. Would i better spending the money i do have on buying a camcorder and pointing it out of a window?

[ilkie]

lol true

BUt my point was would you refuse to install anything?

I agree that cctv is used in many places that other systems would work far better, and that is a problem but it doesn't get us away from i wasn't x but i have y what can you do.

Id expect you to tell me that i wouldn't have evidential images to process with or without csi's amazing interpolation, but all i want to do is keep an eye on my car.

I know and understand that i would need probably 8 cameras just to give 50% at all points on my drive and lawn, but i cant afford that. Would i better spending the money i do have on buying a camcorder and pointing it out of a window?

The answer is yes, I have walked away from many opportunities across the years.

Typically for me this relates to schools.

The invite is along the lines of the Governors have decided they need CCTV, and the reasons either are

1) is kids on the field,

2) thefts of projectors,

3) fears of attack by mad men etc etc.

When you look at the site you see

1) the playing field is 5 acres with no lights and someone has quoted as many as two static cameras that will of course be able to provide evidence for Police (who are not intrested anyway, its not their problem)

2) No intruder alarm in the class rooms where the projectors are installed (only in the corridor), no projector cage, no property marking and no window locks!

3) Front door tied back, fire exits propped open by fire extinguishers.

I have made a number of presentations to Boards of Governors when one explains that the risk assessment shows that CCTV is way down the list of things they should be implementing (Lighting, Intruder Alarms, Physical Security, Aggresive Planting, access control, adopting site security management procedures, property marking and then finally CCTV).

Now as I only do CCTV, most times you are talking yourself out of a job.

However, been in Public Area Surveillance since (nearly, late 80s) the begining, must be doing something right (still working all the hours though, so perhaps not)

Ilkie