arfur mo Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 i think there would be a very strong case for cctv to be graded as is done with intruder alarms, perhaps with more levels so G1 - G4 would be self/semi/budget pro install, but anything graded above say G4 would be an enforcible standard and have to be based on a common recording and reviewing format, so the Police Forces can reasonably use and also have the software to hand for. the above scheme would service the current elements allowing for those who do not need .00000 LUX techniclour 1zillion line systems in the CCTv market, while giving a much needed structured approach to the high end or mission critical systems. lets face, how many clients know or even care where the on switch for the CCTv is, let alone what LUX level is and means, so up to us then to make it more comprehensible to them - thats got to be good for everyone cheapie installers included. sussed it - make all system work on MS XP regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
billythebellbox Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 i think there would be a very strong case for cctv to be graded as is done with intruder alarms, perhaps with more levels so G1 - G4 would be self/semi/budget pro install, but anything graded above say G4 would be an enforcible standard and have to be based on a common recording and reviewing format, so the Police Forces can reasonably use and also have the software to hand for. so just to confuess the client the grades are the opposite way round to an intuder alarm De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da. De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da
ScorpioInstallations Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 "Why don't people fear it? They think the cameras are not working." head of the Viido at Scotland Yard Arfur is completely right (apart from the back to front grading), we have 20% of the worlds cameras in the UK and we are renowned for our 's but still we have no real regulation on installation, criminals couldn't give a monkeys about cameras because poor footage due to badly positioned cameras, poor recorded footage and the fact the most police won't put the effort into seeking footage because of the hassle of obtaining the backup and the dificultys of playing it back. Working in a town center control room today - one of the security staff came in, after dealing with a attempted theft, the girl put the stolen item in between a folded up magazine but then leaned over and it fell out the CCTV operator had been watching since she put the item in the magazine and sent in security staff to apprehend her, She said to the security staff "F-ing hell you wouldn't of caught me if I hadn't bent over" Security said "we have had you on camera since you entered the store" She said "Whatever they don't even work anyway" If there were more successful convictions using CCTV images the 'They dont work anyway' mentality would soon change. Never Teach Your Apprentice Everything You Know
ilkie Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 i think there would be a very strong case for cctv to be graded as is done with intruder alarms, perhaps with more levels so G1 - G4 would be self/semi/budget pro install, but anything graded above say G4 would be an enforcible standard and have to be based on a common recording and reviewing format, so the Police Forces can reasonably use and also have the software to hand for.the above scheme would service the current elements allowing for those who do not need .00000 LUX techniclour 1zillion line systems in the CCTv market, while giving a much needed structured approach to the high end or mission critical systems. lets face, how many clients know or even care where the on switch for the CCTv is, let alone what LUX level is and means, so up to us then to make it more comprehensible to them - thats got to be good for everyone cheapie installers included. sussed it - make all system work on MS XP regs alan Is it not more black and white than that? The grade thing is either it complies or it doesn't. Can it produce usable evidence in an acceptable manner to the criminal justice system? Is it programmed and installed in compliance with the current guidelines and regulations? If it does it passes as OK and if it doesn't it's not fit for purpose. (residential excluded) Ilkie
billythebellbox Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Arfur is completely right (apart from the back to front grading), we have 20% of the worlds cameras in the UK and we are renowned for our 's but still we have no real regulation on installation, Well apart from BS 8418, BS 8495 + Data Protection Act & the written code of pratice by each inpsectorate, there nowt....... De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da. De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da
ScorpioInstallations Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Well apart from BS 8418, BS 8495 + Data Protection Act & the written code of pratice by each inpsectorate, there nowt....... OK wrongly worded, but how many customers are going to care about that, how many customers look for an approved CCTV installer, thats half the problem at least with graded systems it's an easy summary of a installations worth and with the backup of the insurance company's it suddenly becomes more important to the customer. Never Teach Your Apprentice Everything You Know
billythebellbox Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 at least with graded systems it's an easy summary of a installations worth and arf's still working & he's not read the '88 alarm reg's yet? De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da. De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da
ScorpioInstallations Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 arf's still working & he's not read the '88 alarm reg's yet? Yeah but the guy's one of those that takes 1 1/2 hours to do a domestic service: talks about where he's been on holiday, has a bit roll around with the dog, two cups of tea and a chocolate biscuit later the customer knows they've had their moneys worth and recommend him to all there friends down the bus stop. The Classic old school engineer, I have a special place in my heart for you Afr xx Never Teach Your Apprentice Everything You Know
james.wilson Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Is it not more black and white than that?The grade thing is either it complies or it doesn't. Can it produce usable evidence in an acceptable manner to the criminal justice system? Is it programmed and installed in compliance with the current guidelines and regulations? If it does it passes as OK and if it doesn't it's not fit for purpose. I have to disagree here mete. Can produce usable.... etc at what distance, at what light level, for what duration. Under that statement every system in the land wouldnt be fit for purpose cos a theft occured behond the 120% calced range. While i agree with your sentiments any regulation on requirement would need to be carefully worded. Fire regs IMO are best at that detailing at what height and what spacing etc sensors should be at depending on type. Maybe the reg could state that at x range, the recorder and camera should be caperble of resolving xxx tvl / pixels under a light level of 100 lux or greater. If used at night it must etc etc. The regs would need to be tight and not open to interpretation. The current state of self regulation hasnt and isnt working. We have regs we have to stick too, most dont. There is no real requirement for certed cctv. MOst contracts are awarded on number of cameras, headline res, storage days, viewing from home etc. Not the things a system should be measured in. I can see arf point about grading system even if i disagree with his exclusions, but who decides? Is it like intruder.... like fire... or does the grade get decided based on budget, rather than risk.... like..... securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.
Guest anguscanplay Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Working in a town center control room today - one of the security staff came in, after dealing with a attempted theft, the girl put the stolen item in between a folded up magazine but then leaned over and it fell out the CCTV operator had been watching since she put the item in the magazine and sent in security staff to apprehend her, She said to the security staff "F-ing hell you wouldn't of caught me if I hadn't bent over" Security said "we have had you on camera since you entered the store" She said "Whatever they don't even work anyway" If there were more successful convictions using CCTV images the 'They dont work anyway' mentality would soon change. CCTV falls over the moment you move away from its original role and stop watching it - its an unbreakable rule
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