Cctv Format

[james.wilson]

CCTV falls over the moment you move away from its original role and stop watching it - its an unbreakable rule

Dont agree here either angus lol

While CCTV was designed as you say for live monitoring, recording has proved itself to be valuable. Yes under some circumstances the resultant images due to masking/hiding of facial features etc may not allow for easy recognition, it is still evidence.

I presume then that all cctv you fit has no recording on it?

[Guest anguscanplay]

Dont agree here either angus lol

While CCTV was designed as you say for live monitoring, recording has proved itself to be valuable. Yes under some circumstances the resultant images due to masking/hiding of facial features etc may not allow for easy recognition, it is still evidence.

I presume then that all cctv you fit has no recording on it?

no but the little we agree to do the customer has no expectation of been able to ID someone other than from a camera sited for that specific purpose (shop doorway for example)

its as you say, the police like it because they can SEE what happened rather than having to guess, but it would be interesting to see the O/P`s answer to how succesful he is at identifying culprits

hell I`ve been watching your camera for weeks and still couldnt pick you out in a queue for a bus

[james.wilson]

lol only cos you dont know me and i work mostly at another office, i should give you a link to my home one ...... lol

[Doktor Jon]

Hi Dr Jon,

the theory of all using high end is wonderful dream imo - but just that i fear, because it will never happen without stringent legislation.

when it comes to the purpose built systems many i'd agree are shockingly poor quality, but then what was the figure budgeted by the buyer? so you can't lay it all at the door of the installer or the manufacturer's for that matter

I don't recall ever saying that everyone should use high end gear

Perhaps I wasn't terrible articulate in conveying a simple premis.

What I was suggesting in a roundabout way, is that it should in general be possible to identify a number of DVR's at each pricing level, that are fundamentally capable of producing recordings that can be easily extracted, and within their class, are generally going to be useful to the law enforcement and criminal justice communities (provided of course all the various components in the system have been correctly applied).

Now the issue of whether a camera (for example) is fit for purpose, conveniently overlooks the fact that much which is done badly, is done so because of a simple lack of knowledge, and not simply on the basis of cost.

Whilst there is undoubtedly an awful lot of junk out there, I would suggest that if you give a pile of junk to an experienced installer, the likelyhood is they will be able to do something useful with it. Conversely, if you give top notch equipment to someone with little or no experience in the biz, it is quite probable that the images produced will be barely if at all, fit for purpose (whatever that primary purpose happens to be).

I'll give you a couple of very simple examples.

I was having a discussion with a couple of people at IFSEC, regarding the set up of cameras on various stands.

With one exhibitor, I pointed out that despite having extremely good quality equipment, the camera set up would fail a simple test, purely on the basis of being fitted with an incorrectly configured varifocal lens (field of view and focus point were both wrong), and the alignment of the camera meant that about 40% of the picture was completely wasted (ceiling, walls etc.).

The answer was that it's only meant to be a demo so it's really not that important, but when I ventured to suggest that as a leading manufacturer they should be setting an example by demonstrating their camera to best effect, I didn't really get a proper answer. It wouldn't have cost a penny more to do it properly, but they just didn't seem to know how - or perhaps more embarrassingly, they just ain't bovvered

In another discussion, same old same old, great camera but with a dreadful set up.

What I actually said was if I brought along a fifteen year old 2/3" CCD B/W camera with 270 lines resolution, I guarantee I could produce an image that would provide recognition quality images of individuals walking along the walkway. The low end MegaPixel camera being demonstrated was not even able to do that.

It is an inescapable fact that a majority of images that are of most value in terms of identifying suspects, are generally sourced from privately operated systems, often in stations, pubs or high street shops. That's the main reason why specialist police officers (forensic video analysts) are often so frustrated at having to deal with inferior quality which could so easily have been better from the outset. It's frequently nothing to do with cost, just a poor level of application.

In the real world, responsibility in one form or another rests with everyone, from manufacturers and consultants at one end of the process right down to end users at the other.

There will be big changes coming over the next few years, it just remains to be seen whether they are implemented as knee jerk reactions to increasingly reported problems, or whether the industry or parts of it, decide to voluntarily do their little bit to try and drag standards up.

I live in hope ....

[satsuma01]

my opinion for its worth is every company will use the kit they can to get the jobs/installs, depending on which area of the market they are in.

i use the jpeg dvrs and i certainly stand by them as they are very stable pieces of kit.

hope this helps.

[Guest anguscanplay]

hope this helps.

not really, as your customer will still expect the police to roll up and IDENTIFY a total stranger stood 10 mters down their drive at the same time as reading the time off the distant church clock

usual conversation at Angus Alarms

"hi there I need a CCTV camera...."

" no sorry your going to need 3 times as many as you think you do ......."

"clunk....."

and Dr John wonders why

[james.wilson]

Id agree angus, when you tell people and show people that what they expect they listen to the guy that can make one camera cover that whole reception and provide id throughout lol. Then the other guy says that we are the rip off merchant for offering genuine advice.

[ilkie]

Id agree angus, when you tell people and show people that what they expect they listen to the guy that can make one camera cover that whole reception and provide id throughout lol. Then the other guy says that we are the rip off merchant for offering genuine advice.

Right, so the choice is walk away or fit kit you know before you start will not do the job (ie fit for purpose)?

Ilkie

[james.wilson]

Its not a question of walking away ilkie, by saying that

'No Mr x there is no way that a single camera and that dvr can do what your asking' i have already lost the client when someone else has said 'you want one there, there and there, and record for 96 days? no problem sir'

Granted the other system wont do what was expected but who got the order? and who will sell the client more cameras, probably back to our design for probably more money than our design.... again great but we lost the order.

[arfur mo]

Yeah but the guy's one of those that takes 1 1/2 hours to do a domestic service: talks about where he's been on holiday, has a bit roll around with the dog, two cups of tea and a chocolate biscuit later the customer knows they've had their moneys worth and recommend him to all there friends down the bus stop.

The Classic old school engineer, I have a special place in my heart for you Afr xx

complement returned with thanks,

wether it 1 to 20 or the other way (//.B.W.F.//'s) around the idea is to have systems that are easily identified as being of a certain level and so better known only by the client, but the engineer and insurance co where it applies. how much emphassis was placed on security against simple convenience or bluster (if you don't know what i mean - look up decoy bell) at the time of survey.

i'm fortunate in yes i do have a cuppa, talk about my dotty rotty and very beloved grandchildren, which helps make for better contact showing my personality while i learn more of theirs. i see it also allows me to 'tease out' any issues they perhaps have not brought up themselves - and yes that gives me sales, but please allow me something guys - i don't advertise after all (i don't have to - they have to find me).

as for being 'old school' yes i agree i am, and i see no shame in that. i mix old school with cutting edge to make a devastating package of abilities, so i'm very quick and extremely efficient when it comes to fault finding - but thats only on the odd occasion with MY systems at least - and has been for near 30 years of trading.

regs

alan