Mains Powered Smokes Or On Intruder Alarm?

[daiashthomas]

new extension to house and need hard wired fire detection with battery backup

could i get away with fitting smokes in my house on the intruder alarm as it gives different sounds for fire and alarm?

as they are technically mains powered with battery back up, instead of the mains powered ones whitch are more expensive plus i want to link them to the intruder alarm anyway for signaling purposes.

thanks

[Guest Thunderfingers]

new extension to house and need hard wired fire detection with battery backup

could i get away with fitting smokes in my house on the intruder alarm as it gives different sounds for fire and alarm?

as they are technically mains powered with battery back up, instead of the mains powered ones whitch are more expensive plus i want to link them to the intruder alarm anyway for signaling purposes.

thanks

Personally I'd keep them away from the intruder - how many are you installing?

as far as the signalling goes (and the intruder guys will step in here) Im not 100% but I know that the brigade do not like attending to non fire alarm system call outs.

[james.wilson]

agreed, they may not like it, but until they enforce bafe then it wont stop.

As mainly intruder id take the oposite view. While an intruder alaerm can never offer what is required from a full 5839 fire alarm, assuming you have enough local sounder (ie local to each detector) then id say that smokes linked to an intruder alarm are better than interlinked. I say this with no real expereice of interlinked etc, and have 4 x menvier m12 4 in 1 smoke detector 's in my own house.

James

[arfur mo]

as for fire regs - could not possibly comment, but right of the bat i would not connect any smoke detector to any intruder alarm system, i've posted in the past i would ban the practice, but i respect other companies do this and nothing illigal about it..

imo the problems are many, the very 1st concern being distinguishing between a faulty intruder and real fire alerts, simply as the audible signalling being from the same sounder devices which are not fire rated or placed as often as a true fire alarm so the minimum noise is reached in all parts.

might be fine if you or your familie might know the difference before you home fills up with smoke, but what about a guest or a neighbours child? even a neighbour? if you intruder side suffers a series of false alarms the 'respect' level falls which could be a tragedy.

by mixing a vital to life and a vital to contents system you risk a fault on one impacting on the other making boith systems inactive, not good idea surely?

ideally you would wire the system as a proper full on fire alarm, if thats not viable and you must have a 'diy' style fire alarm (and i'd need some convincing you would) then use a separate intruder panel and 12 volts smoke detectors specifically designed for the connection to intruder panels and separate sounders/strobes clearly marked.

otherwise as i see it you might as well get some simple cheap battery detectors and spray them about for what extra good it will be but thats just my opinion .

regs

alan

[Chorlton]

As it's your own house I see no real problem with it so long as the battery back up and positioning complies with Document B.

The battery back up of the panel will be 8hrs where as the internal battery on a mains powered smoke will be many days. However the upside like you say will be the monitoring

Chris.

[james.wilson]

Arf, he is talking about interlinked smoke sensors with built in sounders.... connected via normal mains cable not a full fire alarm. I agree that int fire shouldnt be used in the place of a full fire if that is needed, but most people have 9v smoke alarms and intruder connected are amuch better idea. I dont have a 5839 system in my own house with red fp coming down the wall in my hall to a huge panel for example.

James

[arfur mo]

Arf, he is talking about interlinked smoke sensors with built in sounders.... connected via normal mains cable not a full fire alarm. I agree that int fire shouldnt be used in the place of a full fire if that is needed, but most people have 9v smoke alarms and intruder connected are amuch better idea. I dont have a 5839 system in my own house with red fp coming down the wall in my hall to a huge panel for example.

James

hi james,

not totally clear if needed for building regs for some reason as he says -:

"new extension to house and need hard wired fire detection with battery backup" is this a b&b by any chance?

i've serviced the brk ones for a client, which are mains and pp3 backup, one set's all the others off by the sound emitted but they worry me if a door is closed.

also he mentions in a round about way using intruder linked - well thats one of my real pet hates

there are battery powered ones brk again i think, which can be linked by cable, worst thing about any battery smokes is identifying which one is bleeping on a flat battery

regs

alan

[Guest Thunderfingers]

hi james,

not totally clear if needed for building regs for some reason as he says -:

"new extension to house and need hard wired fire detection with battery backup" is this a b&b by any chance?

i've serviced the brk ones for a client, which are mains and pp3 backup, one set's all the others off by the sound emitted but they worry me if a door is closed.

also he mentions in a round about way using intruder linked - well thats one of my real pet hates

there are battery powered ones brk again i think, which can be linked by cable, worst thing about any battery smokes is identifying which one is bleeping on a flat battery

regs

alan

Alan.Most of the mains with battery back ups now come with a 10 year lithium (if not as standard then as an option.Personally I'd go KIDDE but there are other manufacturers out there).This covers the actually recommended life of the detector and is non-servicable so the whole thing gets replaced.

I noticed that (and I may have picked this up wrong in the post) that initially it is a house then in reference to the options it becomes would it be acceptable in my house.

I know that in commercials the brigade only turn out the once to smokes that are not part of a 5839 system.

Under part 6 you can of course use an intruder system depending on the size of the house.If it's big enough you have to have a 5839 Part 1 system (including MCP's!).

[arfur mo]

Alan.Most of the mains with battery back ups now come with a 10 year lithium (if not as standard then as an option.Personally I'd go KIDDE but there are other manufacturers out there).This covers the actually recommended life of the detector and is non-servicable so the whole thing gets replaced.

I noticed that (and I may have picked this up wrong in the post) that initially it is a house then in reference to the options it becomes would it be acceptable in my house.

I know that in commercials the brigade only turn out the once to smokes that are not part of a 5839 system.

Under part 6 you can of course use an intruder system depending on the size of the house.If it's big enough you have to have a 5839 Part 1 system (including MCP's!).

thanks TF,

building regs have undergone so many changes in recent years, my niece was forced to install a disabled access ramp on her new build house to get pm - yet nobody in the familly is disabled, they are 1 of 5 houses in a tiny yorkshire hamlet.

it has meant they had to make the back door the main entrance, spoiling the look and aesthetics considerably. her brother has now to do the same on his new house. obviously we should all be planning to be enlightened, but seems a bit ott. guess it's down to our remote government in brussels, i'd bet before long thy will have us all new houses plain white or black - for the colour blind .

i have seen those 10 year ones, could perhaps solve the problem of tenants knicking the batteries for other portable items, but tbh this a favour job for a good client, as normally i steer clear of anything to do with smoke/fire alarms.

regs

alan

[daiashthomas]

the only signaling will be to me via speech and text dialer. (and then the Mrs if i don't acknowledge the message)

and it's my own house and only require 2 smokes, plus i would probably use a sound bomb for the fire and just the speaker for the intruder, although you can have different sounds from the speakers.

and as far as batteries go I'll be fitting at least a 17ah to intruder panel.

and also as far as disturbing my neighbors goes they are 25 - 30m away on one side and over 40m on the other side of me.