Old Pir, Need Advice

[mogden]

Hi,

My house has a PIR at the front and two at the real that control my outside lights, I didn't install them and the front one is faulty. They are Racal Rascal Guardall ( now defunct I think )and are 4 wired back to a Racal Light Control Unit. The PIR's don't have mains so must get power from the control unit. The control unit can be switched to lights on/off or PIR switched. My question is does anyone know if there is a modern day PIR I could use to replace my front PIR as most I've seen are mains powered and obviously not an option here.

The PIR has 4 terminals all connected back to the control box, I assume these will be +,-,C and NC and the cable colours used are 1:red 2:yellow 3:blue 4:black

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

[hpotter]

This should do the job.

http://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog...products_id=441

[magpye]

Hi,

My house has a PIR at the front and two at the real that control my outside lights, I didn't install them and the front one is faulty. They are Racal Rascal Guardall ( now defunct I think )and are 4 wired back to a Racal Light Control Unit. The PIR's don't have mains so must get power from the control unit. The control unit can be switched to lights on/off or PIR switched. My question is does anyone know if there is a modern day PIR I could use to replace my front PIR as most I've seen are mains powered and obviously not an option here.

The PIR has 4 terminals all connected back to the control box, I assume these will be +,-,C and NC and the cable colours used are 1:red 2:yellow 3:blue 4:black

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

If my memory is right the wiring you are seeing is not quite what you think.

2x wires - 12v

1x wire - signal back to controller to switch the lights on

1x wire - Daylight Sensor > I think you will find that none of the other detectors have 4 wires in use, only 3 needed,

the Daylight Sensor should only have been used on one detector

[hpotter]

If my memory is right the wiring you are seeing is not quite what you think.

2x wires - 12v

1x wire - signal back to controller to switch the lights on

1x wire - Daylight Sensor > I think you will find that none of the other detectors have 4 wires in use, only 3 needed,

the Daylight Sensor should only have been used on one detector

You could be right magpye, but I thought that was on the racalite's. I was guessing (wrongly?) as the op mentioned NC & C, was a straight relay switched pair.

Wonder if there is a seperate daylight sensor?

[mogden]

Thanks for the swift reply. Ironically the link you've suggested is the only device I could find when I did a search. Someone somewhere suggested GJD products where my only option.

Thanks again.

[magpye]

You could be right magpye, but I thought that was on the racalite's. I was guessing (wrongly?) as the op mentioned NC & C, was a straight relay switched pair.

Wonder if there is a seperate daylight sensor?

From O/P "I assume these will be +,-,C and NC and the cable colours used are 1:red 2:yellow 3:blue 4:black", note 'assume'

If the detector is a Racalite I'm sure what I said is correct, I'll look out the paperwork, think I've still got it.

Rascal is an Alarm system control panel, nothing to do with the name of the company.

Was, Racal, then Racal Guardall, never Racal Rascal Guardall, now just Guardall Ltd (?)

[hpotter]

From O/P "I assume these will be +,-,C and NC and the cable colours used are 1:red 2:yellow 3:blue 4:black", note 'assume'

If the detector is a Racalite I'm sure what I said is correct, I'll look out the paperwork, think I've still got it.

Rascal is an Alarm system control panel, nothing to do with the name of the company.

Was, Racal, then Racal Guardall, never Racal Rascal Guardall, now just Guardall Ltd (?)

Think your right with Racalite wiring. Think your right again, Rascal is an intruder panel and why I thought a std 12v external PIR was being used (C & NC). Still no mention from op re daylight sensor, so really not sure now.

Didnt guardall get bought out by chubb at some point? Seem to remember the chubb guys moaning about gear...............

[lawandorder]

From O/P "I assume these will be +,-,C and NC and the cable colours used are 1:red 2:yellow 3:blue 4:black", note 'assume'

If the detector is a Racalite I'm sure what I said is correct, I'll look out the paperwork, think I've still got it.

Rascal is an Alarm system control panel, nothing to do with the name of the company.

Was, Racal, then Racal Guardall, never Racal Rascal Guardall, now just Guardall Ltd (?)

I'm pretty sure the GJD stuff isn't compatible with the racalite controller.

They both use 4 wires and both use 12 volts but I'm pretty sure the Racalite only used the 4th wire for daylight sensing (as somebody else has already said), the GJD uses the fourth wire as a separate trigger for the chime facility. (I think)

I may be mistaken but I used to work for Brittania/ADT years ago and in the late 80s/early 90s we had quite a few of both systems installed, I'm almost certain that you cannot use GJD sensors with your controller though it may be possible for a good engineer to somehow make them compatible.

[mogden]

The C and NC I mentioned I picked up from someone on another forum. The PIR terminals are just labelled 1,2,3,4 and the connection back to the control panel was as I mentioned 1:red 2:yellow 3:blue 4:black

Daylight sensor was active and did work. I haven't looked at the inside of the other two PIR's at the back of my house but you could be right, there may only be 3 wires being used.

You guys are so helpful, I'm impressed.

[Guest anguscanplay]

I'm pretty sure the GJD stuff isn't compatible with the racalite controller.

They both use 4 wires and both use 12 volts but I'm pretty sure the Racalite only used the 4th wire for daylight sensing (as somebody else has already said), the GJD uses the fourth wire as a separate trigger for the chime facility. (I think)

I may be mistaken but I used to work for Brittania/ADT years ago and in the late 80s/early 90s we had quite a few of both systems installed, I'm almost certain that you cannot use GJD sensors with your controller though it may be possible for a good engineer to somehow make them compatible.

it can work but you need to fit a resistor across 12V and ??

been that long I really can`t remember