Bell Box Not Triggering

[lawandorder]

Yes it is the Veritas.. R8 with a remote pad... All I need is a no frills panel that will make a loud noise if anyone tries to "Intrude". we are fortunate to be amongst a very good group of neighbours and we all look out for each other when any of us is away, for all of us to hear each other's alarms is all that our systems need to do.

A pleasant note to sign off with... Goodnight..

Phil.

Glad you got it sorted Phil-44, it is rare to find two panels out of the box exhibiting the same fault but in fairness the tests you did effectively elininated any other possibility.

As above the R8 is a good reliable panel in my experience and provides a lot of features for the money.

I love a happy ending! lol

[phil-h44]

Glad you got it sorted Phil-44, it is rare to find two panels out of the box exhibiting the same fault but in fairness the tests you did effectively elininated any other possibility.

As above the R8 is a good reliable panel in my experience and provides a lot of features for the money.

I love a happy ending! lol

Thanks Lawandorder.. yes I agree, to find two bad panels at once must be some sort of record, as someone said earlier.. maybe a problem with a batch.

The suppliers were non too pleased when I pointed out the date bar on the box label said OCT 2004.. They were going to take it up with the makers. I'm sure I've seen somewhere that the 9448 is now obsolete too.

But as the saying goes... All's well that ends Well. I've no doubt the Duchess will find something else for me to do Now this is sorted... the perils of being retired.

Thanks again........ Phil.

[arfur mo]

not aiming to throw many more spanners phil,

with remote help of any kind it is difficulty to visualise exactely what you have been faced with or been doing.

bear with me here please,

i'm very pleased your system is now working, but i hold deep reservations as to you having 'fixed' it by using an alternative panel.

if i were in front of my service dept boss discussing events as i would be after so much time, efort and kit, this is how it would go -:

My Boss (assume a real nasty git).

"so counting the original, you have now changed to a 4th panel, so how much experimental stock should i carry for you and how amny hours can i charge the client Mr Mo?"

we would then cordially look back, do an autopsy if you like of my service methods and skills before me being rightly booted around the office and carpark.

"you said the original panel transformer burned out the pcb, tbh i've yet to come across a transformer that suddenly gives out a massively higher voltage or current due to a fault with it. i have known them burn out, smoke, or go o/c due to a fault on the system, but nothing to damage a main pcb in its own right" and he'd have a point.

so if we accept that for now - what really was the fault with the original panel caused by?

well my experience, most of the service guys in here and my old boss) tells me most likely culprit is the standby battery was not changed. you had the system under a maintenace contract now defunct so i assume not regularly checked with a proper tester (and i don't mean on a laod test with a DVM).

some batts go o/c others go partially short circuit (often indicated by getting very hot and transformer humming excessively), so that was more likely the cause of the original failure.

but here again, if there is a partial short on your system that also causes higher current drain can get near the designed max without blowing a fuse, if it dose the way the fuse fails is a clue i.e. most of the wire still shows, tiny gap in it, and eventually can lead to failure of the voltage rectifier and/or diods.

it is not uncommonn even for experienced engineers, to replace control panels as you have done, and when doing so due to different footprints need to drill new fixing holes, bring the cables in a differrent way as needs be. when doing so either skin a cable, unknowingly drill partially through buried cables shorting them together, or crushing them under the fixing pillars.

i know as many others in here, such shorts can throw up the oddest of problems on intruder panels, just touching the box can alter the pressure on the cables where damaged, often changing the fault sympthoms due to higher or lower ressistance's that change in pressure causes.

from that aspect of my experience and time served good practice 'back to basics' would have highlighted or illiminated the panel issue a lot sooner. i.e. had you tested your 1st new panel prior to connecting anything to it, you would have been in a strong position of knowing of problem with the panel a lot sooner, and repeating it on the 2nd panel would have the same positive results.

my fear is you have overcome the problem with a diferent and markedly better panel (if still not the best imo), again changing the footprint, new drillings new cable entry positions and appearing to clear a possible fault with two others and the original panel, but one day that fault will be back to bite you in the harris - i do hope not but confidence is..................

regs

alan

[james.wilson]

arf from what i have read i looked liked a faulty panel, or a programming issue. Either way it does sound sorted now.

[phil-h44]

not aiming to throw many more spanners phil,

with remote help of any kind it is difficulty to visualise exactely what you have been faced with or been doing.

bear with me here please,

i'm very pleased your system is now working, but i hold deep reservations as to you having 'fixed' it by using an alternative panel.

if i were in front of my service dept boss discussing events as i would be after so much time, efort and kit, this is how it would go -:

My Boss (assume a real nasty git).

"so counting the original, you have now changed to a 4th panel, so how much experimental stock should i carry for you and how amny hours can i charge the client Mr Mo?"

we would then cordially look back, do an autopsy if you like of my service methods and skills before me being rightly booted around the office and carpark.

"you said the original panel transformer burned out the pcb, tbh i've yet to come across a transformer that suddenly gives out a massively higher voltage or current due to a fault with it. i have known them burn out, smoke, or go o/c due to a fault on the system, but nothing to damage a main pcb in its own right" and he'd have a point.

so if we accept that for now - what really was the fault with the original panel caused by?

well my experience, most of the service guys in here and my old boss) tells me most likely culprit is the standby battery was not changed. you had the system under a maintenace contract now defunct so i assume not regularly checked with a proper tester (and i don't mean on a laod test with a DVM).

some batts go o/c others go partially short circuit (often indicated by getting very hot and transformer humming excessively), so that was more likely the cause of the original failure.

but here again, if there is a partial short on your system that also causes higher current drain can get near the designed max without blowing a fuse, if it dose the way the fuse fails is a clue i.e. most of the wire still shows, tiny gap in it, and eventually can lead to failure of the voltage rectifier and/or diods.

it is not uncommonn even for experienced engineers, to replace control panels as you have done, and when doing so due to different footprints need to drill new fixing holes, bring the cables in a differrent way as needs be. when doing so either skin a cable, unknowingly drill partially through buried cables shorting them together, or crushing them under the fixing pillars.

i know as many others in here, such shorts can throw up the oddest of problems on intruder panels, just touching the box can alter the pressure on the cables where damaged, often changing the fault sympthoms due to higher or lower ressistance's that change in pressure causes.

from that aspect of my experience and time served good practice 'back to basics' would have highlighted or illiminated the panel issue a lot sooner. i.e. had you tested your 1st new panel prior to connecting anything to it, you would have been in a strong position of knowing of problem with the panel a lot sooner, and repeating it on the 2nd panel would have the same positive results.

my fear is you have overcome the problem with a diferent and markedly better panel (if still not the best imo), again changing the footprint, new drillings new cable entry positions and appearing to clear a possible fault with two others and the original panel, but one day that fault will be back to bite you in the harris - i do hope not but confidence is..................

regs

alan

Thanks again arfurmo... I am trying my hardest to work out what exactly it is that you are trying to prove.

The original panel with the blown diodes had been in service for 20+ tears and the fault with that was diagnosed by a professional installer, I had to agree as there were serious signs of burning around the diodes and evidence that the transformer had overheated.. Other than that it is no longer of any consequence.

ONCE AGAIN I must ask you to read very thoroughly all my entries in the topic and you will see that I carried out all the tests that you yourself suggested and a few more besides. These tests verified that the rest of the system was Fine.

The general view was that I did have another faulty panel which was a view that I shared.

The supplier was more than happy to exchange the panel again, especially after I explained the tests that I had done.. Their expert also formed the opinion that the panels were faulty. ( or had an incompatibility issue with that bellbox)

At the end of the day fitting another panel has done what I set out to do in the first place.. It has given me back a working alarm system, for how long it lasts will be a case of time will tell. I can't look into the future so I will deal with whatever happens if and when it happens.

As I started out saying, what ever you are trying to prove is now no longer of any consequence to me.. I have done exactly what I have said I have done and achieved the result that I needed... End of story... If you can't accept that then the problem rests with you.

Regards....... Phil.

[Chorlton]

and on that note