Budget Farm System

[satsuma01]

Hi Dr Jon,

agreed fibre would be far more expensive to repair, and suggest it could be buried using a 'mole', if it is mechanically protected properly, then less likely an issue. suggesting ways of doing that would need a site visit as really the type and positionning of cameras would to be accurate.

if it were a lot closer then cat5e would be the way to go, still beyond many to repair properly though, and i would have thought any copper cable used is more likely to be downed by rodents etc - mice and squirrels just love alarm cable for some reason.

what i was interested in 'as a project', is the suggestion of some sort of alarm to detect imminent birthing, is there such sensors already available like radio kit attached by a collar that can do this?

regs

alan

why not just superglue a passive infrared detector to the behind of the animal and radio it over to the reciever :lol:

[BuffaloBilly]

Thanks for some great replies. I had considered fibre optic but thought it might be a bit pricey, can anyone put an approximate cost on a run of that length?

To expand the situation a bit, the shed we particularly want to cover is our calving shed which has a pen for six cows at each end. We add cows as they get nearer to their calving date and move them out after they have been calved for a couple of days to make way for new ones. It is easy enough to tell when they are about to calve as they start lying down and getting up and wandering about restlessly but it would be useful to be able to have a look in the middle of the night etc... so I thought a ptz camera in the middle of the roof would let me focus on one cow in either pen. Also we might like a second camera in another shed where the expectant mothers are just in case. Ideally I'd like something up and running for

[james.wilson]

your not gonna get a decent ptz ip camera for less than 1k, muchless the rest of the kit you need. A decent PTZ analouge dome is gonne be that aswell.

depending on transmission costs your gonna be looking at 2k for kit alone. There is cheaper stuff but if you want it to work, and work well and reliably id avoid it.

[ilkie]

I personally wouldn't recommend fibre optic cable being used in an agricultural location.

Apart from the obvious risks from machinery and weather, there's also the small problem of rats, mice and on occassions foxes chewing through anything that takes their fancy, and repairing FO cable is not something to be enjoyed mid winter when you're knee deep in slurry.

If you have a barn with those dimensions, it's often better practice to divide up the area so that all the imminent calvers are contained in a smaller area which is then more easily lit and observed, preferably using fixed and optimised cameras.

The lack of any human observer generally means that the beasties behave far more naturally on camera, so it's relatively easy to spot those that are about to drop a calf, without having to make the long walk.

I'd actually suggest that this project is kept simple, and unless there is an overbearing reason to go IP, I'd have stuck with conventional proven analogue (one or two decent box cameras in weatherproof housings - depending on the size of the calving area), which is more than capable of producing the quality required for this very straightforward application.

As for it being an interesting project, I'd have to confess that having supplied hundreds of systems for livestock management back in the '70s and '80s, my T shirt is now somewhat understandably a bit tatty around the edges.

Agreed, fibre is not the cable to use here, I would suggest a 'proper' twisted pair cable transmission system (easy to lay and repair, specialist knowledge to set up though), or a decent sized coax.

Ilkie

[Doktor Jon]

Interesting links Alpat

I particularly liked the last one from the Home Office. If they bothered to do their homework and talk to some of their own experts that worked for the Min. of Ag. years ago, they'd probably find that there's little point in trying to re-invent the wheel.

The type of 'birthing' alarms that are proposed for cattle, have been around for years in the horse world. Some breeders swear by them, and the majority swear at them.

The best expert to consult about animal husbandry is the stockman that actually looks after the animals, and not necessarily a scientist looking for a high tech fix, for what is already a problem that is not looking for a new solution.

In the late '70's I was demonstrating 'calving' CCTV systems for less than

[BuffaloBilly]

It appears that one of the cameras suggested above, the Axis 212 retails for about

[james.wilson]

axis have democams on their site, but your bb connection downstream speed is irrelevant. ie 8 meg broadband will be 8meg down (you pulling down from the internet) and 256k ti 800k up (you sending to the internet) so your cam will be limited to the upstream speed. But you can make adjustments to the stream to make it look how you like over bb,

[arfur mo]

why not just superglue a passive infrared detector to the behind of the animal and radio it over to the reciever :lol:

much cheaper option - use a pressure pad towed behind the cow, if a calf pops out 'hey presto'

regs

alan

Agreed, fibre is not the cable to use here, I would suggest a 'proper' twisted pair cable transmission system (easy to lay and repair, specialist knowledge to set up though), or a decent sized coax.

Ilkie

hi Ilkie,

i'm not challenging you in any way, just bowing to your supireior expertise in this,

imo surely if the estimated distance of 600mteres (if correct), prevents a passive cat5e solution, so he will have to fit launch amps to each camera?

i concider to get what he needs, even if the cat5e did work he would be limited in his options to either 4 cams, (or 3 cams + ptz control) per cable, so now needing 2 cables (for 6+ cameras) to be run with 6+ launch amps.

given this could be done on a single multimode fibre optic cable without the launch amps, would this not balance the cost of the transponders and give greater scope for expansion later?

i don't get much oportunity to go long cable distance's with cctv, but did do a quote last year for a stables using radio, so very interested (and very respectful) of what you think of my 'pained' deliberations.

regs

alan

[james.wilson]

you could use active analogue converters and easily do 1.6km arf. but normal ethernet wouldnt work. extended ethernet would, but speed would be lower.

[arfur mo]

you could use active analogue converters and easily do 1.6km arf. but normal ethernet wouldnt work. extended ethernet would, but speed would be lower.

but using ac's, would not the same restictions and simular cost calculations apply James?

imo fibre allows many more cameras (could use ip cameras). given initial cost may seem a lot higher but i'd say pro rata especially for later expansion fiber offers a good 'return' for the outlay.

while imo 1k spend limit, even using nasty budget kit is just not going to anywhere near enough to cut it really. as for the cheapest transmittion alternatives one way is using the likes of geovision kit, linked via an ordinary phone line modem and a private exchange used as the private 'line'.

cable run to the sheds as a telephone 'extention'. that way the viewing client is used via a pc. no way claiming the best idea available as that would be via internet each end, but i have had reasonable results over the public phone network.

if it is possible to get BT line to the sheds, but i'm not sure with modern mutiplexed lines how good it would be or if it would work at all over the public network (same probs as old digi's perhaps).

regs

alan