adt

[mr silcox]

when we turned into //.National Installer.// f&s from //.National Installer.// secuirty systems you could not move in our stores for new //.National Installer.// bell boxes

even if you went in for some contacts you would end up with a box of bell covers and a box of siren covers

i suspect someone still has hundreds in there garage!!!!!!!!

on the other subject .........

there has always been a major shortage of quality engineers down our end and the good ones do get poched by other companys or move up to sales or management

i think there are major diffrences between branches>>>>>>>>>>>

but again it horses for corses if i needed my bolier serviced i would ring someone local and get a price and compare it with say british gas i suspect that the local one would be cheeper

if i was the contracts manager for a supermarket i would one company to deal with it all

to be honest i would not mind if i never went to a domestic again in my life

come on admit it they a bloody nussance i've got sites that pay 23k+

that we never get called to one that pays £79 wants you there (in 10 mins)every time they mis-op / cant set

[TSS]

Bellman, no offence intended.

Quote "I cant knock the //.National Installer.// boys tho, they do work hard - and for very little reward!"

Quote "Each (service) engineer gives the best possible service he can"

As you can see I was actually giving you praise...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was not slagging off //.National Installer.//, merely putting a point across.

To clarify where I was getting at was that as a general rule salesmen are figures/money motivated and engineers are problem solving motivated. If a salesman can improve his margin on a particular job then he can afford to drop margin on another, without too much risk of a beasting from his sales manager.

Obviously newcastle is sorted, and alot must have changed since I left.

You have jumped to a conclusion based on the fact that everyone slaggs off //.National Installer.//, this is not the case, if you re-read my post you will see this.

It was in fact a compliment to you service engineers out there, because as I stated you do achieve a fantastic amount for the amount of time and stock given to you. At //.National Installer.// the service dept will always be seen (INTERNALLY) as a cost or money-losing department, purely because of the way that customers pay money in, and until a service engineer visits site it is 100% profit. You are up against thsi and you or your flm's/service manager have to justify your existance and every expense at every possible opportunity.

Currently at Northampton sales they have a variety of salesmen, NON of whom have been engineers. (to my knowledge)

I was a service engineer for 5 years. My patch had 864 jobs in it. The average false alarm rate per system per annum was 11.2 when I took over. When I finished to go to sales the false alarm rate was 0.63! Proof if you needed it that I was doing my job properly. This FAR has now risen I believe. I worked VERY hard to achieve this, and got regularly b*******ed for using too much stock!

I was doing 40-60 calls per week, I have copies of my timesheets to prove this.

Then I moved to sales, I saw the otherside of //.National Installer.//... I Know what I am talking about!

Granted tho I perhaps should have qualified my comments and included the basis of my knowledge. Thsi would have given you more information on which to base your conclusion.

The security trade is big enough and diverse enough for all of our companies, for our mutual benefit.

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So to get at the point of my first post, regardless of company, should electronic security salesmen be properly qualified before they sell to unsuspecting potential new customers?

The variety of quotes and specifications being produced by several Nacoss approved companies proves that many of them do not know what they are doing!

[bellman]

In response

there has always been a major shortage of quality engineers down our end and the good ones do get poched by other companys or move up to sales or management

i think there are major diffrences between branches>>>>>>>>>>> 

Yup, agreed, the amount of poaching that goes on is quite silly, customers like to see the same face, constantly rotating engineers does nothing to foster good customer relationships. my branch enjoys a fairly stable engineering team but we have just had a bit of a swap around (for the above reason)

as for branch differences, yeah, I think it's a case of too much "empire building" by certain managers.

but again it horses for corses if i needed my bolier serviced i would ring someone local and get a price and compare it with say british gas i suspect that the local one would be cheeper

if i was the contracts manager for a supermarket i would one company to deal with it all

Can't with you there. //.National Installer.// look after 89 out of UK's top 100 companies for that very reason.

to be honest i would not mind if i never went to a domestic again in my life

come on admit it they a bloody nussance i've got sites that pay 23k+

that we never get called to one that pays £79 wants you there (in 10 mins)every time they mis-op / cant set

Bloody nusance because 9 times out of ten they don't read the manuals or the contracts. I have the same experiances, I look after systems that have dozens of users and hundreds of sensors that i see twice a year for servicing and perhaps once or twice for alterations/additions. this is because the site managers sat down with the users and TRAINED the users how to use it correctly and they pay vast amounts of money. because of the size and complexity of the systems.

on the other hand, I go to dozens of domestics that the user manual is still sealed in it's manufacturer's packet and there the ones that complain the most...

Perhaps users need to take a bigger role in false alarm management.

Regards

Bellman

[bellman]

Alarmbloke,

I was not slagging off //.National Installer.//, merely putting a point across.

From your original post :

They spend the absolute minimum of time doing the minimum required to get their customers off their backs for the maximum amount of money they can get out of a customer

also

may not be qualified or time served in the industry, had little or no training except for sales technique.

and

what chance has a lowly figures-driven salesman of non-security engineering background got?

I'd read that as slagging off...

You have jumped to a conclusion based on the fact that everyone slaggs off //.National Installer.//, this is not the case, if you re-read my post you will see this.

I have re-read your post and i NEVER jump to conclusions, you are the one that did that by making assumptions from your time there, see the 3 quotes from you above.

It was in fact a compliment to you service engineers out there, because as I stated you do achieve a fantastic amount for the amount of time and stock given to you. At //.National Installer.// the service dept will always be seen (INTERNALLY) as a cost or money-losing department

I'm left to my own devices about the amount of time it takes, if a system takes 4 hours to service, it takes 4 hours, if it takes 1 hour, it takes 1 hour, I don't skimp to try to meet time scales, I strongly believe things should be done correctly or not at all.

Also stock has never been an issue, we have to carry a minimum stock level of equipment (which is regularly audited to ensure we keep it up to level), my car's overflowing with spare parts and I can get most things next day delivery from our national parts warehouse and distribution centre at letchworth.

you or your flm's/service manager have to justify your existance and every expense at every possible opportunity.

I suppose I would have to justify my existance if I didn't make the company money or keep my customers happy (yes i see them as MY customers) but I have never missed any of my performance or revenue targets .

Perhaps you had a bad experiance at your old branch mate, but I can assure you that my branch isn't at all like how you describe. There was a big shake up after Dennis k and perhaps that has had some bearings on the issues you raised above.

Granted tho I perhaps should have qualified my comments and included the basis of my knowledge. Thsi would have given you more information on which to base your conclusion.

also, no worries and no offence taken. written words are often misinterprated. i'm just as guilty of that as was said earlier, branches do differ.

The security trade is big enough and diverse enough for all of our companies, for our mutual benefit.

Agreed, everybody has there place here (except the cowboys and shysters)

So to get at the point of my first post, regardless of company, should electronic security salesmen be properly qualified before they sell to unsuspecting potential new customers?

DEFINATLY preferably ex engineers.

Best Regards

Bellman

[TSS]

I agree ex-engineers almost always make better salespersons in this industry.

By better I mean more technically correct, less prone to false alarms. sometimes slightly over engineered, and so therefore slightly more expensive. But this is much better than someone not of engineering mind!

Your Branch is obviously a far cry (and much better) from the APC and BPC where I worked. I only left 18 months ago. It was the most profitable branch in the uk, wonder why?

Branch manager has now moved to bigger branch, sales manager off sick, and systems sales manager left so I guess that indicates a few things...

Having thought about my posts, I have realised the importance of keeping single subject on-topic posts! It would have been much less ambiguous if I had started a new post!

chap

James

[TSS]

Perhaps to keep all happy (including the people who like to moan the pro's and con's of the big 4) we should have a "bitching corner" dedicated for people who want to bitch on, preferably as a closed forum or at least in the trade section, so as we mightnt look unprofessional to the all-seeing public?

[breff]

To answer your question about salesmen..................They should be Surveyors not Salesmen.......Weve all seen it...so called surveyors who are only still in work because they could sell sand to the arabs, but how many times does there specification have to be changed by installation engineers who know that if for instance they put the Hall PIR on Entry/Exit because theres laminate floor it is them who would get pulled up.

Ex Engineers make the best Surveyors, but not necesarily the best Salesmen.

Glenn

[breff]

PS

We once had one of our surveyors tell the customer we used invisible cable!!!!!

[norman]

ahh,that will be the belden issued to dealers then!!!