Fire Doors

[jenshastings]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section but I am just wondering what the actual regulations are for having locks on fire doors. I am living in a student house with 4 other students and for some unusual reason all the doors in the house are fire doors - well we assume they are as we have been told by the housing office and they have those automatic door closers. I am just wondering what the regulations are for having locks on the doors - I am living with 2 male housemates who I only met this year and have found they do not understand the art of knocking. Also, one has a tendency to forget to lock the front door when he goes out and I am living on the ground floor - first door you come to when you come in the house - therefore my room would be the first to be broken into if someone came in the house. I also get visits to my room in the early hours by drunk housemates which I'd like to prevent.

I'd like to get a sliding bolt or at the very least a chain for the inside of the door - there's actually part of a chain lock on the door frame already but I think this may have been from a previous door - and a padlock unit for the outside of the door, much like I used to have in a student house last year. However, I have been told by the housing company that it is not regulation to put locks on fire doors. I am just wondering if there is actually a rule about this considering they are not really public fire doors but the choice of the landlord to put up in a house. Any hard evidence people could provide would also be useful in putting my case to the housing association about getting some locks put up.

Thanks everyone

[Chorlton]

The property your in is whats caled a House of Multiple Occupancy (HMO) - http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/rent...housesmultiple/

The Regulatory Reform order (RRO) covers the legalities - http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051541.htm

Here is the specific government guidance document for sleeping accomodation - http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/151339.pdf

PAGE 66 says the following -

Suitability of escape routes

You should ensure that your escape routes are:

suitable;

easily, safely and immediately usable at all times;

adequate for the number of people likely to use them;

usable without passing through doors requiring a key or code to unlock;

free from any obstructions, slip or trip hazards;

well lit by normal or emergency escape lighting;

and available for access by the emergency services.

From that I'd conclude your OK to use a slip bolt or chain just not a keylock or digilock.

Hope that helps.

[MatonTE1]

Surely the OP is talking about the actual door of the room that they sleep/live in and this is his personal living quarters,as opposed to a door at or on a fire escape route (if I have misinterpreted this then apologies in advance)?

Sounds to me that this is a case of not reading the regulations correctly (now,theres a first).

[Chorlton]

Allen all doors in HMO's form part of the escape route and require fire doors, self closers and no key locks.

I've provided plenty of documentation to back up my advice.

However it is ultimately upto the responsible person for the property and down to their fire risk assessment's findings.

If the Landlord says no locks of any sort are allowed that's it I'm afraid.

The law/guidance gives them that control/power.

C.

[MatonTE1]

Was querying reading of regs by "housing association" and not implied personally.

this being the case you would need to be pretty sure of your fellow occupants in relation to your own personal health and safety,as well as the security of your belongings.

Every days a school day - I'll stick to what I know from now on.

[luggsey]

Just compare this situation to a hotel, the external door knob/handle is dead and the key is always required to gain access, inside the handle/knob is 'live' and can always be used to egress. Simple. Like me!!!!

[MatonTE1]

Just compare this situation to a hotel, the external door knob/handle is dead and the key is always required to gain access, inside the handle/knob is 'live' and can always be used to egress. Simple. Like me!!!!

Well,thats what I was thinking but we don't do HMO's at all so different regs and all that - now,back to my copy of BS 5839-1:2002

+ A2:2008?

As an aside (and the page 66 article does not refer specifically to HMO's) - on the same page quoted it states

"In multi-occupied premises, escape routes should normally be independent of other occupiers, i.e. people should not have to go

through another occupier’s premises as the route may be secured or obstructed."

[MatonTE1]

I have also came across this bit of info that relates to generic HMO's,but does admit that each local authority may have their own turn on what is required

"An escape route from every room, except a bathroom protected by fire doors with overhead closers, intermescent strips with smoke seals and thumb turn locks on the bedroom and exit doors."

Just demonstrating difference in understanding of what is required.

[Chorlton]

risk assessment sums it up nicely

having read nearly every piece of guidance issued for both the fire scotland act & the rro etc you find that very little is defined

if you can document solid reasons not to do something and prove the reasoning very little is mandatory more "best practice", a bit like your BS document

All you can do to answer a "requirment" question is direct the individual to the closest relevant guidance & the rest is up to them or the RP

[bri]

Gentleman the solution is a bit more simple than that.

The student wants to stop his erstwhile alcoholics entering his room whilst he's in it or not, this is a basic security issue which an ordinary Yale lock will suffice. If it has self closers then they will automatically push the door closed, in the event of a fire the occupant simply has to walk towards the door, albeit making sure its safe to do so, turn the lock and escape to the designated marshalling point.If not as he's on the ground floor exit through the window.

On a normal day he simply leaves his room and locks the door behind him.Simple