Yale Ain't So Bad

[fastalarms]

Who goes when you are away on your hols?

I think you could answer that last question yourself.

Holidays? can't afford them..yet

re the second point I meant has a professional installed one to see how they operate or to see how a well installed one performs.

[Guest RJBsec]

You seem to have missed the bit where if they ask for insurance approved systems I point them towards an approved installer.

You also have missed the bit where if they approach their insurance it wouldn't be an accepted alarm anyway.

By not lodging the alarm with the insurer they have in fact belt and braces.

I haven't missed anything, it is normally a requirement that the insured informs the insurer of anything that may affect the risk being insured, failure to do that will breach their insurance terms and render them liable to no or reduced payout in the event of a claim.

That has nothing to do with whether or not the alarm is an insurance requirement.

Additionally failing to provide an insurer with all relevant information surrounding a claim could amount to fraud, so advising them that, "If the insurance aren't notified that an alarm is installed then there is no argument about wether it was set or wether it failed to work and therefore no argument about the client getting a claim settled", is not only irresponsible and unprofessional but it could also make you complicit in a fraud.

Your actions may be well-meaning but they are wrong and you should stop immediately.

[fastalarms]

I haven't missed anything, it is normally a requirement that the insured informs the insurer of anything that may affect the risk being insured, failure to do that will breach their insurance terms and render them liable to no or reduced payout in the event of a claim.

That has nothing to do with whether or not the alarm is an insurance requirement.

Additionally failing to provide an insurer with all relevant information surrounding a claim could amount to fraud, so advising them that, "If the insurance aren't notified that an alarm is installed then there is no argument about wether it was set or wether it failed to work and therefore no argument about the client getting a claim settled", is not only irresponsible and unprofessional but it could also make you complicit in a fraud.

Your actions may be well-meaning but they are wrong and you should stop immediately.

With all due respect I totally fail to see where your logic is coming from.

Are you actually saying that fitting a YALE alarm actually INCREASES your chances of being burgled.

Are you suggesting that anyone who fits a YALE alarm as a DIY fit has voided their insurance?

There is no fraud in telling a client that he is better not to have an alarm listed on their policy as if they fail to set it could predjudice a claim.

Its common sense.

If they want an alarm the insurance needs to approve or one that will get them a premium reduction I tell them to go NACOSS.

I didn't expect an easy ride in here but I didn't expect to have every stone turned looking for any crumb of discredit no matter how implausible.

I simply said the YALE alarms aren't as bad as you guys make out.

I said they fit a niche in the Market

I asked for the details of a scantronic 1on16 wholesaler (which noone has supplied so I assume you don't really want me to 'better myself')

I haven't criticised you guys

Many of your alarm companies in their seminal days will have had all sorts of bodges done to save a buck I am sure plenty of you giys who have been in the game long enough can tell me stories that you laugh about but would make an NSI inspectors hair curl.

I don't need any slack cutting I am a big boy now.

[Guest RJBsec]

I'm not commenting on the Yale system, it would apply to any system.

Encouraging a customer to give false information or conceal relevant information, e.g. 'It doesn't matter if you get burgled when you've forgotten to set your alarm because you haven't told them you've got an alarm" is encouraging them to probably break the terms of their insurance and possibly be guilty of fraud.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, though if that's what you're getting I'm not surprised, in this instance I am trying to help you avoid trouble for yourself and your customer - you can take the advice or leave it but if you leave it you leave yourself wide open to trouble.

[fastalarms]

I'm not commenting on the Yale system, it would apply to any system.

Encouraging a customer to give false information or conceal relevant information, e.g. 'It doesn't matter if you get burgled when you've forgotten to set your alarm because you haven't told them you've got an alarm" is encouraging them to probably break the terms of their insurance and possibly be guilty of fraud.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, though if that's what you're getting I'm not surprised, in this instance I am trying to help you avoid trouble for yourself and your customer - you can take the advice or leave it but if you leave it you leave yourself wide open to trouble.

Thanks fella , I still don't understand how installing an alarm and not telling your insurance would lead you open to their refusing a claim.

If they had fitted one of my alarms and then claimed it was NACOSS I could understand a big problem.

I am not telling them to defraud or decieve their insurance company. I am just pointing out that if you fit an alarm and don't tell your insurance you are then safe from any accusations of failing to set it.

Having an alarm fitted unless you are claiming an insurance reduction is no more notifiable than changing a light fitting.

Unless there are any legal bods on here who could shed light on this?

[Guest RJBsec]

I am just pointing out that if you fit an alarm and don't tell your insurance you are then safe from any accusations of failing to set it.

Explain to me how that isn't witholding information in the event of an insured loss.

[fastalarms]

Explain to me how that isn't witholding information in the event of an insured loss.

I am not telling them NOT to tell the insurance company they forgot to set it.

I am telling them it may pay not to tell the insurance comany they have an alarm.

They are more than welcome to tell the loss adjuster that they forgot to set the alarm when he asks but since it isn't a part of the

the contract it cannot be held against their claim.

If there is no requirement under your insurance policy to have an alarm set because you haven't claimed a premium reduction or the insurance company haven't specified you need an approved alarm then the alarms

failure either by failing to set or malfunction cannot be held against a claim.

If I have something wrong here does anyone have any actual case file notes or precedent.

.

[ian.cant]

As far as cover for a failed system it is not required.

You may think its not required, but when you get turned over by a client or an insurance company you will wish you had it.

Furthermore, failing to advise an insurance company doesnt mean they wont take it into account. I would be pretty certain if the insurance assessor turns out after a break in and see's the alarm panel theyre gonna ask the question was it set? If it wasnt they wont pay out, if it was they'll come looking for you!

[An Engineer]

Fastalarms,

There is no point trying to convince any of these muppets that the Yale is any good. Fact is the systems we fit are far superior in every way. Like you say, I know there is a niche for this system as there have been many times when people have turned down my quote saying it's too expensive. Personally, I would not fit any of these DIY type systems for various reasons, I get where your coming from though and wish you luck with the business.

These forums are full of people spoiling for an argument or just wanting to put someone down so don't let any of the comments bother you. It's a great source for info, advice etc.

[Chorlton]

best distance yourself from this forum & it's muppets