So What Is Your Solution?

[Chorlton]

we all have the same number arms & legs (I assume) so in theory Yes.

what we can't do is pretend to do something we don't understand and get someone else to do the knowledge side.

But TBH similar things are being said many different ways here but upon deaf ears they may fall

Lol at your edit fella

[xx badwolf xx]

The only companies that can fit a grade 2 system are NSI/SSAIB it does not matter that all the kit is grade 2. It is not the engineer who makes the system grade 2 you can fit the system save your money and go for the NSI/SSAIB.

You say you have been in the industry for 2 years but you show a lack of concept for the regs.

The best advice you have been given is to ask the SSAIB or NSI for an application pack. You have to fit your systems to the EN regs so read up on them or buy http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intruder-Alarms-Ge...y/dp/0750681675

You have to understand why people on this site are so angry with your comments we all work hard at the companies we run and at the moment you are knocking everything that we are.

With regard to the kit you buy ADI/Gardners are not the only supplier but they will make a profit when they see new blood coming in and i know from the business experiance you have it should not be that difficult to cost product

regards

mark

[A-G]

If you win the job install it and maintain it, provide 24/7 main contracts and 4hr response.

Nope. He's moonlighting. He has another job and does this as a hobby (He said so in one of his first posts) .... I wonder how he manages to fit 6 alarms a week in his spare time? Maybe he's a fireman?

[Guest old-hand]

Yales nailed ( wow it rhymes) to walls?

[alterEGO]

Your from Manchester i`ll forgive ya this once

ouch, i'll hold back for now

[goncall]

i might as well add my 2p worth..fastalarms,you seem a decent bloke your giving it ago,but being a success isnt all about selling cheap alarms,you do serve a gap in the market i agree,but you have to move up quickly,the lack of industry experience will hold you back its not just about installing systems,you have the admin side,the surveys and dealing with comms the police nsi and ssaib handovers,servicing,false alarm management risk assesments etc the list is endless and costs money,you would benefit going on some courses and learn about the industry get a copy of the regs study them over and over then when you think youve remembered study them again,visit nsi or ssaib personally speak to the inspectors ask advice they wont hold back on telling you if your doing something wrong belive me,and the thing about this industry...its incestious ,everybody knows what the other is doing,what they charge what gear they use etc,its also very snobbish,were nsi your ssaib etc we use this panel you use that panel were better than you,get used to it,also a lot of good companies out there were started by enginners doing their own work while employed then gone alone,i wish you luck just keep trying to gain experience and set youself higher standards,gradualy use better gear take it apart put it back together then again,try to stick to one make of panel and use the range to suit your installs...ps galaxy panels are now made in china... and they are the rolls royce of panels....

all the best

[NitroN]

All I would like to say is that making/selling furniture is not the same as selling/installing an alarm. One is about comfort, etc. The other is about safety and security, sometimes with serious consequences. Do a bad job, and lives may be at stake, not just comfort or looks!

I know nothing about furniture and would not try to make it or sell it until I thought that I had learnt enough to, at least compete, in the industry on even terms.

I am not sure about what happens in the UK, but in my country, some people think that Electronic Security is a quick and easy way to make money. Some of these, even end up as security professionals in the long run, but only after they have learnt the required lessons and become professional. The rest, just out to make a quick buck, leave quickly, when they learn more about the industry and that its a hard industry to stay in.

It does not matter where in the world you work in; quick and cheap never lasts in our industry. Become good and add value, provide a decent service and maybe you will survive.

Am I being harsh or protectionist? I don't think so, I am just trying to be honest, the only people I am trying to protect are you, your clients and the industry!

[Joe Harris]

The Yale systems might not be Grade 2 but Yale are a big company with a big reputation. They wouldn't sell burglar alarms if they didn't work.

Please read the disclaimers.

At the end of the day the sensors detect movement and the sirens sound and the control panels dial out. They do what they claim to do. If anyone wants to challenge Yale under the terms of the Sale of Goods act and their fitness for purpose then be my guest.

If fitted correctly and even then they are limited in their application, I can't recall the ability to mask etc on Yale PIRs (Perhaps I missed it?)

There are reasons they aren't as good as Grade 2 kit. The range of the detectors and the sensor design for instance. They aren't dualcom and cannot be accepted for police response.

Which is why they will never gain a police response.

I didn't mean to criticise the police but the ACPO terms for police response is document with a single aim. That aim is to prevent the Police attending false alarms.

To this end they specify the specification of the equipment and the qualifications of the installer.

So they should as well. The vast majority of activations are false alarms. We work hard at our ARC to filter out proven (I use proven instead of confirmed so as to prevent any confusion) false activations.

That is all well and good so far.

However they then go on to add that your response will be withdrawn if you or the company who fitted your alarm registers too many false alarms.

It is in most cases the end user who 'registers too many false activations' - this comes back somewhat to the point of the graded installations and conformance in preventing false activations due to poor installation or system design.

Every home that has an alarm fitted will have false alarms until they get used to how the system works. Even if the system is fitted perfectly by completely competent personell there will still be false alarms.

Not so, even the training of end users formulates part of the quality controls as part of the standards.

Sunday morning the kids get up and rush straight into the kitchen..bingo.

Everyone gets home from shopping and the kids rush in to turn on the TV..bingo

The cat decides to climb up the curtains and despite pet friendly sensors..Bingo

All unconfirmed activations easily filtered.

Hidden right at the end of the document is the fact that the Police will only attend IF THEY HAVE RESOURCES AVAILABLE..so if you keep your URN safe by conforming to all the above there is still no GUARANTEED Police response.

The same is stated by all emergency response services and is a standard caveat. Im much the same way as with any contractual agreement, it does not anull the agreement (As has been proven in several well established test cases) but does allow for practical issues - if a unit is the only one available in the area then they must prioritise for example an armed robbery or personal attack over an intruder alarm.

I am not angry or bitter I am just looking at this industry with a new set of eyes as a newby.

Would I personally have a monitored system if I was a consumer buying an alarm now. Probably not I would save the expense and would have an autodialler with a gsm back up.

There are many reasons people opt for alarm systems installed profeesionally with a 24 hour monitoring service. Far too many to list. If your personal preference would be for an autodialler then that is good for you, would you also know if the comms were both disabled simultaeneously whilst you were on the second day of a fortnight in Barbados? It could be done in an expensive manner but is not very practical.

My furniture business did collapse because of Chinese goods being imported. Sure I could have looked for another outlet for my product but like the farmers you either supply the big supermarkets or you go out of business. Supply the supermarkets of course and you get your balls twisted.

Competeing against chinese goods was impossible. Health and safety,minimum wages, red tape , environmental costs etc etc all added to make it impossible to manufacture in this coutry to the same price as far eastern goods shipped in.

Gordon Brown would be wishing there was still some manufacturing left in this country right now but he left it to wither on the vine by failing to protect it.

As a woodworking factory I was probably the single most regulated business type in the country with everything covered by both health and safety and environmental legislation.

I am sorry to hear of your previous experience and I emphasise with your anger, but do not - as some people on here have suggested, sink to their level.

You can succeed without lowering your aim. Obviously quality is important to you, as shown from your comments about the imported furniture. Take that same ethos into the security market and you will do well. There is a lot of support and information available to get yourself on the ladder. Concentrate on the first rung and keep your aim on the highest.

Right now I want to advertise some Grade 2 installs on my website so I will be looking for a local experienced installer to do some moonlighting for me.

I just need to source the goods at the right price.

When I have had enough installs done that I can get them inspected then I will be on my way towards beginning to conform. This next year will either make or break me.

As stated - they will not be grade 2 installs. With an engineer trained to install to grade 2 and grade 2 equipment it is still not a grade 2 system so it would be classed as false advertising to suggest otherwise. I'm trying in earnest to help you to not make such errors. Others here would be likely to do the same but will put their guard up if they see people trying to cut corners as they too have a strong sense of 'doing things right' much as you did with your sofas.

A lot of work in this industry involves 'covering your a$$.... at the moment you are leaving yours exposed. (_)_)

'J

[LDM]

Start the way you mean to go on (not using DIY kit IMHO)

Focus on your own quality of service, equipment & workmanship.

Don't target customers who ignore the above and only focus on cheapest price.

Respect those that have been around a few decades and have worked hard and invested money in gaining approval.

Aim to gain approval and don't aim to make approval out to be some sort of masonic insider trading scheme.

Like alter above I completely dislike your method of work but not all your ideas or you personally.

Hi C, You make it sound easy. What advise cud you give to someone like myself trying to grow my small company, other than all the basics like quality of work and advertising.

[A-G]

Hi C, You make it sound easy. What advise cud you give to someone like myself trying to grow my small company, other than all the basics like quality of work and advertising.

Good communication. Customers love to be kept informed.

Fast response. Get there quick and be on time.

Have no problems. Customers don't want to hear about any problems, so overcome them without fuss.

Politeness. Always be firm but courteous.